1159: How to Get Internal Experts to Contribute to Your Content Efforts w/ Kelli Turner

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:05.639 Looking for a guaranteed way to create content that resonates with your audience? Start 2 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:10.589 a podcast, interview your ideal clients and let them choose the topic of the 3 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:15.109 interview, because if your ideal clients care about the topic, there's a good 4 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.989 chance the rest of your audience will care about it too. Learn more at 5 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:27.620 Sweet Phish Mediacom you're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B 6 00:00:27.739 --> 00:00:32.100 TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner truck 7 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:36.049 and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 8 00:00:36.689 --> 00:00:40.689 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:45.170 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're 10 00:00:45.170 --> 00:00:50.159 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing be tob 11 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:53.679 companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of 12 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:57.560 sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one 13 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.280 of the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing 14 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.189 leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will 15 00:01:04.230 --> 00:01:07.510 share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the 16 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:19.659 world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back 17 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:23.099 to be tob growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweetfish media. Today I'm joined 18 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:27.340 by Kelly Turner. She is the director of marketing and communications over at Zold 19 00:01:27.379 --> 00:01:32.420 data. Kelly, how's it going today? It's going wonderfully. Thank you 20 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:36.170 for having me. I am so excited to talk shop with you today, 21 00:01:36.170 --> 00:01:38.930 Kelly. It's great to talk with other marketing minds right here in Colorado, 22 00:01:40.049 --> 00:01:42.730 in my own neck of the wood. So we're going to be talking about 23 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:48.239 really your team's pivot to content marketing and some lessons learned along the way, 24 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.920 as you guys have been trying to figure out how do you scale a content 25 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.760 engine within your marketing department. Before we jump straight to that, though, 26 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.200 as we always do, I'd love for you to tell listeners a little bit 27 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.590 about yourself some contact. What are you and the team at Z old data 28 00:02:01.590 --> 00:02:05.549 up to these days? Well, sure, so. First let me tell 29 00:02:05.549 --> 00:02:10.629 you a little bit about Zol soul develops medical devices and software to help advance 30 00:02:10.789 --> 00:02:15.780 emergency care and save lives. Yes, of course, saving lives is our 31 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:23.539 main priority, but our solutions also aid and improving clinical outcomes and operational efficiencies. 32 00:02:23.620 --> 00:02:28.740 So it's a win win. We have multiple divisions at Zoul serving different 33 00:02:28.780 --> 00:02:32.210 markets, and I am in the data or software division and I have been 34 00:02:32.330 --> 00:02:38.169 with the company for over thirteen years, so I have seen us go from 35 00:02:38.250 --> 00:02:44.090 old school marketing to the newer digital marketing, so I've seen it. Also, 36 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.080 the change that we went through is pretty profound. Yeah, absolutely. 37 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:51.719 So that actually kicks off this connosation really well, Kelly, as if we 38 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:53.800 had planned it. So, you know, let's talk a little bit about 39 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.199 before we get into your lessons learned, tell us a little bit about that 40 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.590 trade in position, because I know a lot of folks listening to this nor 41 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:06.430 at bb Sass companies that live and breathe content marketing day in and day out, 42 00:03:06.430 --> 00:03:09.110 but there are also folks who are in industries that are maybe a little 43 00:03:09.110 --> 00:03:14.020 bit further behind in their transition to content marketing or they're trying to make that 44 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:17.500 transition for their organization. So if you can kind of speak to that transition 45 00:03:17.620 --> 00:03:23.180 that you saw and headed up within your team before we get to some of 46 00:03:23.219 --> 00:03:25.099 those lessons learned, I think that would be some good background for folks. 47 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:31.330 Sure, you bet so. First I'll say that being a medical device company, 48 00:03:31.569 --> 00:03:35.770 you are really limited to the types of things you can talk about. 49 00:03:36.330 --> 00:03:39.969 So that was kind of the first hurdle, was breaking the norm. We 50 00:03:40.129 --> 00:03:45.120 decided this was, you know, back in the right like two thousand and 51 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.159 eleven. We decided, okay, we need to make us kind of fundamental 52 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:53.360 shift in the way we do our marketing. In the past it was mainly 53 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:57.789 print ads and account based direct marketing campaigns. That's pretty much what we did 54 00:03:58.229 --> 00:04:01.629 and are advertising was very self centered, focused on what we can do for 55 00:04:01.710 --> 00:04:05.469 you, and so one of the changes we wanted to make was, first, 56 00:04:06.349 --> 00:04:10.259 our marketing efforts had to be data driven. We needed to be able 57 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:14.580 to track our progress, which we weren't doing very well, of course, 58 00:04:14.620 --> 00:04:18.139 with, you know, print ads and even the account based marketing programs. 59 00:04:18.899 --> 00:04:23.980 Secondly, we wanted to be customer focused. We really wanted to be pro 60 00:04:24.139 --> 00:04:29.050 customer and thirdly, we wanted to be seen by our stomers as a mentor, 61 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:32.170 like I valued resource in the industry. We wanted them to come to 62 00:04:32.290 --> 00:04:35.569 us when they had, you know, questions or problems, you know around 63 00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:40.319 our area. Of expertise. So those are kind of things that we decided 64 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.160 we wanted to do and at that time our team was really small. There 65 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:48.040 was roughly five of us. So our team of five decided to set out 66 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:51.600 on our content journey. We talked to our customers and then our of course, 67 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:57.790 our internal stakeholders of like sales support, customer success, and we found 68 00:04:57.790 --> 00:05:00.509 there was no shortage of topics to talk about, lots of things to talk 69 00:05:00.509 --> 00:05:04.910 about that our customers wanted to learn more about. So we created our content 70 00:05:04.990 --> 00:05:10.220 strategy, picked our topics, selected you know how often we were going to 71 00:05:10.259 --> 00:05:14.220 do them, which at that time was we wanted to do a blog post 72 00:05:14.259 --> 00:05:18.620 every week and we wanted to do one educational webinar each month. So then 73 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:25.170 we beguy on to assign the topics with deadlines to our internal subject matter experts 74 00:05:25.209 --> 00:05:29.730 and we were on our road to success. And you know, as you 75 00:05:29.810 --> 00:05:31.649 and I were talking offline a little bit, you know you guys have had 76 00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:35.399 some great successes. They're Kelly, but I imagine there were some bumps in 77 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:39.319 the road along the way. And what I find is that, you know, 78 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.720 whether it's marketing, leadership, any sort of topic, we learn more 79 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:45.800 from our failure. So, if you're willing, I would love for you 80 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.240 to unpack maybe some of the things that you wish you'd known going in or 81 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:53.069 those lumps that you took early on as you guys made the transition to building 82 00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:57.709 and eventually scaling your your content efforts on your team. Oh yes, we 83 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:01.709 did. We did hit some serious barriers, obstacles that we had to overcome. 84 00:06:02.189 --> 00:06:05.899 So the first one was at the data division. We have close to 85 00:06:06.019 --> 00:06:11.420 three hundred subject matter experts, you know, technology experts, in the house. 86 00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:16.259 So our first failure came from thinking that we had enough inhouse resources to 87 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:21.490 develop the quantity and quality of content that would be valuable to our customers. 88 00:06:23.170 --> 00:06:25.930 When we, you know, we started as signing topics, you know, 89 00:06:26.089 --> 00:06:30.250 to the appropriate people, and we found that they one weren't excited about doing 90 00:06:30.329 --> 00:06:35.439 it. They flat out said no, they didn't have time, that type 91 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:40.600 of thing, and so we quickly realized, okay, this isn't going to 92 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:45.399 work. So then we said, okay, well, if our internal subject 93 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:49.149 matter experts can't help us come up with the content, we decided, well, 94 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:54.189 you know, we're smart marketers, we can develop this content right and 95 00:06:54.389 --> 00:07:00.550 so we decided to kind of take on the majority of the content creation ourselves, 96 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:04.259 and that was an eye opening experience in itself, because, you know, 97 00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:08.500 when it takes, it takes quite a bit of time to come up 98 00:07:08.540 --> 00:07:14.300 with each piece of content. I started writing a blog. Knew exactly what 99 00:07:14.420 --> 00:07:16.209 I was going to write about. I knew the you know, the topic. 100 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:19.290 I was, you know, precise on everything I wanted to say and 101 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:24.889 I started writing. The words flew out of me. I didn't move, 102 00:07:25.009 --> 00:07:26.930 didn't get up to go to the restroom. Now, nothing, and I 103 00:07:27.089 --> 00:07:30.480 was done. And it was four hours later. And that was with absolute 104 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:32.839 focus, no interruptions. Know exactly what I what I wanted to do. 105 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:36.079 Yeah, and and that didn't include all the things, you know, like 106 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:41.639 editing, adding the images, backlinks is a keyword? Does it have keywords 107 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.040 that people can find it? You know, all that stuff. That was 108 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.750 the whole next step. So I quickly realized that what we're going to have 109 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:54.870 to do here is figure out a way to determine how much content we can 110 00:07:55.750 --> 00:08:00.699 produce realistically. Yeah, how did you start to benchmark that with your team, 111 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:03.699 Kelly, to figure out, okay, if this is what we want 112 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:05.500 to do now, I can back into it and realize, okay, this 113 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:09.819 is the time it's going to take just for peace, or amount of content 114 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:15.050 per month or how did you kind of go about backing into those numbers a 115 00:08:15.129 --> 00:08:18.730 bit? So the first thing we did was we created a process for each 116 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:22.810 piece of content. So, you know, a blog had a at a 117 00:08:22.889 --> 00:08:26.569 process, a Webinar had a process, an ebook at a process, and 118 00:08:26.769 --> 00:08:31.080 so it made sure that you had all the steps to be successful from the 119 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:35.120 idea all the way through the promotion, the execution and the promotion. And 120 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:41.909 we use just as we used a project management tools that allows for time tracking. 121 00:08:41.309 --> 00:08:43.429 It did not go over well at first, I will say that, 122 00:08:43.830 --> 00:08:48.509 but it was required. We had to do it because it was so we 123 00:08:48.629 --> 00:08:50.389 were saying things like Oh, blog post, I'll get that out and, 124 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:54.350 you know, a couple hours and we just had no idea how much we 125 00:08:54.470 --> 00:09:00.779 could we could take on and we were finding ourselves overwhelmed, swamps, beginning 126 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:03.580 to be burned out, the type of thing. So we started tracking our 127 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:07.259 time and we were finding that, you know, a blog post to do 128 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:13.250 everything was closer to that eighth hour time frame instead of that for a Webinar. 129 00:09:13.330 --> 00:09:16.529 We knew that we had to if we wanted two weeks to promote the 130 00:09:16.570 --> 00:09:18.730 Webin are. We knew that we had to back it up and have, 131 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:24.559 you know, a month of production time to be successful and everything that we 132 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.679 had to do. So figuring out yet how much time it took to do 133 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:35.240 each piece was was crucial to see how much our team, and which was 134 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.470 is small, could handle. So that's how we went about it. Hey, 135 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:43.549 everybody, logan with sweet fish here. You probably already know that we 136 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.070 think you should start a podcast if you haven't already. But what if you 137 00:09:48.190 --> 00:09:52.860 have and you're asking these kinds of questions? How much has our podcast impacted 138 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:58.019 revenue this year? How's our sales team actually leveraging the PODCAST content? If 139 00:09:58.059 --> 00:10:01.179 you can't answer these questions, you're actually not alone. This is why I 140 00:10:01.299 --> 00:10:07.330 casted, created the very first content marketing platform made specifically for be to be 141 00:10:07.450 --> 00:10:13.370 podcasting. Now you can more easily search and share your audio content while getting 142 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:18.129 greater visibility into the impact of your podcast. The marketing teams at Drift Terminus 143 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:22.799 and here at sweetfish have started using casted to get more value out of our 144 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.799 podcasts, and you probably can to. You can check out the product in 145 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:35.429 action and casted dot US growth. That's sea St Ed dot US growth. 146 00:10:35.909 --> 00:10:41.190 All right, let's get back to the show. All Right, Kelly, 147 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:45.830 I love how you're backing up and talking about some of those road blocks you 148 00:10:45.909 --> 00:10:48.830 guys hit initially. You guys sound like you were able to get some quick 149 00:10:48.870 --> 00:10:52.100 wins realizing that, okay, we need to time track, we need to 150 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:56.500 account for more time in publishing, in promotion, not just the creation. 151 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:03.059 The other thing you talked about earlier is having subject matter experts within your walls 152 00:11:03.379 --> 00:11:07.289 and I talked to a lot of marketing teams that have subject matter experts and 153 00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:11.850 a ton of expertise within their walls, but it's not translating to thought leadership. 154 00:11:11.409 --> 00:11:15.049 Was that an obstacle for you guys? Did you find some areas to 155 00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:18.570 get some quick wins there? Maybe we sure did so. We had the 156 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.919 exact same problem as I kind of mentioned before, and this was a quick 157 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.120 win and we kind of did it in a quick little win and then a 158 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.399 better win. The quick win was, you know, instead of assigning the 159 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.759 subject matter experts to topic and just, you know, having them or be 160 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.070 responsible for writing about it, what we found was, of course, it 161 00:11:35.389 --> 00:11:39.029 wasn't that they didn't want to do it. It's not their area of expertise. 162 00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:41.629 They felt burdens, they didn't feel like they could do a good job 163 00:11:41.750 --> 00:11:43.750 on it, they didn't even know what kind of we were looking for, 164 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:48.340 and so, you know, they shied away. So what we did was 165 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:52.500 we created just the kind of old school journalist approach and we we approached it 166 00:11:52.539 --> 00:11:56.419 as if we were going to interview them. We gave them the topic that 167 00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:58.500 we wanted to talk about in advance, we told them kind of the questions 168 00:11:58.539 --> 00:12:03.289 that we did and just kind of like this, you know, this podcast. 169 00:12:03.450 --> 00:12:07.330 We went in it like like that, and and it took the fear 170 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:09.610 away and it took the burden away because after we interviewed them, then we 171 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:13.690 collected the information and we built out the content from there. And so not 172 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:20.679 only did they appreciate the burden being taking off of them, they actually loved 173 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.480 participating. And so we went from Pete, we went from all of our 174 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:30.000 subject matter experts not wanting to even be involved to now it's kind of like 175 00:12:30.149 --> 00:12:31.149 take a number, we'll get back to you on that. You know, 176 00:12:31.950 --> 00:12:37.070 yeah, come around. So it's really great. I found also the the 177 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:39.789 better win, though, was to really get laser focused on the kind of 178 00:12:39.870 --> 00:12:43.230 content we wanted to create. In the beginning, we thought, you know, 179 00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:46.340 and I don't like to take shortcuts, but you know some of our 180 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.019 content, you know, we we took a few short cuts that I, 181 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.220 you know, don't recommend, but one of them was to hand over the 182 00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:56.220 interview questions to that subject matter expert and then have them, you know, 183 00:12:56.419 --> 00:13:01.730 complete them and then send it back to us and we would develop the content. 184 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.129 And that's the short cut that we ended up fixing because we noticed that 185 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:13.559 we weren't getting to the real story because without that interaction back and forth, 186 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.480 you know, there might be something missing your you know, there might be 187 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.279 more information to be gained. So really getting laser focused on, you know, 188 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:26.990 what you want to accomplish with really every piece of content helps navigate both 189 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.230 you and that subject matter expert into getting those really great bits of information. 190 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:35.190 Yeah, so did you guys move from just giving them the questions, having 191 00:13:35.230 --> 00:13:41.779 them maybe email them back and then instead sit down maybe record those with someone 192 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:45.500 from the marketing team interviewing them exactly? And that kind of goes back to 193 00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:48.700 that time tracking again. So in the first way we were doing it, 194 00:13:48.860 --> 00:13:52.419 which was just sending out the you know, questions. We could send those 195 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:54.340 out and and bulk and then get them back and start, you know, 196 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.090 kind of craft and content. But we were seeing that the quantity or the 197 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:03.090 quality just wasn't there and we weren't hitting the stories right and so we decided, 198 00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:05.210 okay, we're going to have to, you know, just take more 199 00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:11.120 of the effort up front and to get that better quantity quality content and and 200 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.679 do that interview and poke and ask more questions. Yeah, that's how we 201 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.519 do now, really, as you guys have been since then, you know, 202 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.960 learning, taking your lumps early, finding out some ways to pivot. 203 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.590 You know, as you and I were talking a little bit offline, you've 204 00:14:24.629 --> 00:14:30.870 been able to successfully scale your content production within your team. Would have been 205 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:35.750 some of the key factors for you guys in this latest stage of growing out 206 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:41.139 your content engine. So we're still a small marketing group and we did find 207 00:14:41.299 --> 00:14:43.980 we did settle on. I think I said in the beginning we wanted to 208 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:48.980 do one blog post every week and one large piece of content like a Webinar 209 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:52.019 every month. Well, that went out the window after we did our time 210 00:14:52.419 --> 00:14:56.049 calculated Asians, that was not achievable. So now we're settled on to blog 211 00:14:56.169 --> 00:15:01.210 post per week and then one large piece of contents like a Webinar each quarter. 212 00:15:01.649 --> 00:15:05.730 So that's what we can do. That's what we can successfully do well, 213 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.559 but there's more content that's out there, there's more we can do, 214 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.519 and so we've decided, you know, we said, okay, well, 215 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.480 how are we going to scale this? It's either add another you know headcount 216 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:20.320 or devote maybe some marketing dollars to additional content, and that's kind of what 217 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.669 we did. The first thing we did was we are so lucky to be 218 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:30.389 in an industry where the customers love to talk about their successes. So that 219 00:15:30.509 --> 00:15:35.710 was another easy win. Was let's get our customers to contribute and tell their 220 00:15:35.740 --> 00:15:39.860 stories, which are basically case studies, right, and so we have a 221 00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:43.539 plethora of customers just wanting to tell their stories. So that's been a great, 222 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:46.779 you know, added way to get additional perspective content, I should call 223 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:52.129 that. And then the other thing was, yeah, outsourcing the content. 224 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:56.889 We realized kind of quickly that, you know, there's tons of you know, 225 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.690 copywriting services that can help you with that. That didn't necessarily work for 226 00:16:02.809 --> 00:16:07.279 us. We are in a very niche market and there's tons of acronyms and 227 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.000 if you're not writing in such a way people can tell if you're in the 228 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.000 industry and if you're not. And so that type of outsourcing did not work 229 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.440 when we did try that, you know, several times with all sorts of 230 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:23.269 different companies and and that type of thing. Where we did find our success 231 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:30.950 was to outsourcing to people in our industry that are already existing thought leaders, 232 00:16:30.350 --> 00:16:34.379 and we basically did, you know, the old school give you a column 233 00:16:34.419 --> 00:16:37.820 on our in our newspaper type of thing, and we gave and we gave 234 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:44.059 them the ability to contribute. Of course, you know, we compensate them 235 00:16:44.139 --> 00:16:48.529 and they're contributing their expertise on our platform, which has been really great. 236 00:16:48.529 --> 00:16:52.450 So we're kind of merging their thought leadership in our brand together and then they 237 00:16:52.529 --> 00:16:56.730 have this great their thought leaders they have this great social following. So we're 238 00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:00.519 really expanding our reach by tapping into these existing thought leaders. You know, 239 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.119 you can you can go, you know, one of two ways. You 240 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.759 can build it from scratch, from the ground up, if you've got, 241 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.440 you know, the money and the infrastructure, which we did not have, 242 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.349 or you can partner with your industry experts, and that's what we did, 243 00:17:15.470 --> 00:17:19.390 and that's where we have found the biggest results. Yeah, and the other 244 00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:22.710 thing you've got to think about is, you know, do you have enough 245 00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:26.029 runway for for you to be able to see the the payback on that investment 246 00:17:26.069 --> 00:17:29.910 of building that out? So I think you guys were able to find, 247 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:33.579 even though you mentioned not liking shortcuts, you found some, some shortcuts that 248 00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:37.140 we found in our own approach, as well as a small bootstrap store. 249 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.420 Then, yeah, growing quickly. Where can you find those partnerships? And 250 00:17:41.619 --> 00:17:45.089 that's where, you know, just side tangent. For us, it's really 251 00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:48.210 all about community. If you're not doing things, you know, to build 252 00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:52.730 community within your target market, then it makes those sorts of things very tough. 253 00:17:52.970 --> 00:17:56.450 But when you are doing those things, it makes it very easy to 254 00:17:56.529 --> 00:17:59.839 find those people. Hey, you've got a following, we can, you 255 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:02.799 know, merge your thought leadership with our brand. It's a win win, 256 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.079 just like you said it there, Kelly. I think that was fantastic, 257 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.519 Kelly. If anybody listening to this would like to stay connected with you, 258 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.069 reach out and asking follow up questions, maybe they're at a similar point in 259 00:18:14.269 --> 00:18:18.630 their marketing journey or maybe they're like you and just love talking shop with other 260 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:22.789 BB marketers. I would love to give you the chance to let people know 261 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:26.670 what's the easiest way to stay connected with you. Reach out anything like that. 262 00:18:26.299 --> 00:18:30.660 I think it would be linked in, please. I am always an 263 00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:34.579 open book and willing to share my trials and tribulations just to help somebody else 264 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:37.700 get ahead. So feel free to reach out to me. It's Kelly with 265 00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.450 an eye turner, Kelly Dot Turner, and you can find me on Linkedin. 266 00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:45.529 I love it, Kelly. That's exactly what you did today and that's 267 00:18:45.569 --> 00:18:48.329 why I love this conversation. But we're coming on the show. They're so 268 00:18:48.490 --> 00:18:52.849 welcome. I had such a good time. Thank you so much. We 269 00:18:53.089 --> 00:18:57.200 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 270 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.400 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the B 271 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:06.240 tob growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest 272 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:11.509 takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom 273 00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:15.430 big three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three