1119: Is the Talent Shortage Real? w/ Ryan Kohler

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.799 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.230 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:10.349 --> 00:00:15.429 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:25.699 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:30.500 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.420 before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.729 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:43.289 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:48.170 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 10 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.759 building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.320 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.600 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 13 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.600 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 14 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.510 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attend 15 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.590 to take over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:21.700 show. Welcome back to BEDB growth. I am your host for today's episode. 17 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:23.579 Nikki. I be with sweet fish media. Guys, I've got with 18 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:30.019 you today Ryan Colder, who is founder and CEO at applicant pro. Ryan, 19 00:01:30.140 --> 00:01:34.090 how you doing today? I'm doing great, good. I love it, 20 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:38.890 enthusiasm on this first day of I love what we're going to be talking 21 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:42.290 about today, because I like to call people out. So look, guys, 22 00:01:42.329 --> 00:01:45.290 we're going to get to the bottom of this. Wasn't brall? Is 23 00:01:45.450 --> 00:01:49.599 the talent shortage real, or is it just a cop out? And you 24 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.599 know what's what is moneying the waters here? But before we get into all 25 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.079 of that, Ryan, I would love it if you would just give us 26 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:59.239 all a little bit of background on yourself and what you and the folks that 27 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.430 applicant pro have been up to these days. Sure. So, yeah, 28 00:02:02.549 --> 00:02:07.269 weird path. I am what you call a nontech founder, right, so, 29 00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:09.389 Solo founder of a Tech Company, even though I don't Crow Code. 30 00:02:10.069 --> 00:02:15.389 Got Degree in accounting, just board me to death. Got An MBA, 31 00:02:15.430 --> 00:02:19.699 quit my job and got into Web Marketing about twenty years ago and for about 32 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:23.340 the last cash almost fifteen years, we've been building hiring software, kind of 33 00:02:23.419 --> 00:02:28.460 trying to had no no background and hiring no background in HR. Somebody asks 34 00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:30.810 us to build to miiring software and we said, you know, why not? 35 00:02:30.289 --> 00:02:34.650 Has Been an interesting decade and a half, through a couple of sessions 36 00:02:34.729 --> 00:02:38.250 and high unemployment, low unemployment, this talent short as we have now. 37 00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:42.650 That's really kind of our our focal point at African pros. We help a 38 00:02:42.689 --> 00:02:46.960 small and midsize companies, especially those with high turnover and who hire a lot 39 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:50.759 of entry and mid level talence. So anybody from a restaurant to a credit 40 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.159 union, to a non profit, to an auto dealer, but even tech 41 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.520 companies not, who do a lot of hirings and and our spin is we're 42 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:01.270 kind of like we don't just do tracking, we help them actually source applicants. 43 00:03:01.389 --> 00:03:04.909 That's like, you know, something like a topic like this is something 44 00:03:04.949 --> 00:03:08.310 that's just crazy interesting for us, especially in the current market with all the 45 00:03:08.349 --> 00:03:12.900 stuff that's going on on the on the sourcing side of things, for sure. 46 00:03:13.580 --> 00:03:16.659 So so let's get into it. You make no bones about this wend 47 00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:22.780 upline, about whether or not this idea of there being a talent shortage is 48 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:24.740 real, or are we just missing something? So set the scene for us, 49 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:28.289 Ryan. What are we dealing with through so? So, yeah, 50 00:03:28.330 --> 00:03:30.889 so you have this interesting thing. If you listen to news, you listen 51 00:03:30.969 --> 00:03:32.610 to you know whether, however you get your news, you're going to hear 52 00:03:32.650 --> 00:03:37.930 at some point somebody say, you know, there's more jobs than applicants and 53 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:40.599 and you if you drop down Indian industries, especially the tech world, you're 54 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:45.520 going to hear that there's a shortage of programmers. And in some roles, 55 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:50.000 clearly that's true. There might be more programming jobs and there are programmers, 56 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.280 so they might be more like in the h fact space there's more, you 57 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:58.189 know, technician jobs in there, technics, techmissions or driving. But the 58 00:03:58.389 --> 00:04:01.789 problem is that's like a macro concept, right. That's like that's like saying 59 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:05.229 that there's not enough people who want to buy crm software, right, compared 60 00:04:05.310 --> 00:04:10.419 to the five thousand therm platforms that are out there. But at the micro 61 00:04:10.539 --> 00:04:14.659 level, meaning your own organization, that's a huge copout, usual that they'll 62 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:17.180 use to back that up untill say, we'll look at the unemployment rate. 63 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:21.339 That's always my favorite one. That's like the evidence that there's a shortage of 64 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:25.610 calendar, that it's hard for us to get talent. Is that unemployments? 65 00:04:25.689 --> 00:04:28.970 That say three percent, right, and so you go, okay, let's 66 00:04:29.009 --> 00:04:31.449 let's walk down this like because if I said that you would probably go wow, 67 00:04:31.490 --> 00:04:34.810 yeah, unemployments a three percent, I bet it's a hard but it's 68 00:04:34.810 --> 00:04:40.480 hard to hire people. And everybody, especially outside of HR, except that 69 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.720 and goes yeah, I mean I heard unemployments really low and they said on 70 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.600 the news the other day the low unemployment is making it hard for employers to 71 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:53.509 get talent, or immigration is making it hard for hotels hire housekeepers, or 72 00:04:53.629 --> 00:04:57.069 there's plenty of news articles on it. But yet if you drop down to 73 00:04:57.189 --> 00:05:00.990 what they're actually doing, nobody is whate it's being used for. Is like 74 00:05:00.029 --> 00:05:04.629 a copout stay and so therefore there's nothing we can do right, nothing we 75 00:05:04.709 --> 00:05:09.420 can do about it at all. And Yeah, it's just super interested to 76 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:12.899 imagine as a marketer. Let me set the scene. Imagine that you walk 77 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:16.540 into a conference of marketers, right, and everybody's there and you ask this 78 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:19.180 room of say a hundred marketers, you say who many? Who in here 79 00:05:19.259 --> 00:05:24.930 by rays of hands, feels like they could do something to impact the number 80 00:05:24.930 --> 00:05:28.850 of leads they get at their organization. My guess is everybody would raise their 81 00:05:28.889 --> 00:05:30.449 hand in the room because if they didn't, they should get out of marketing 82 00:05:30.490 --> 00:05:33.850 and be fired. Right, because why would you show up to work every 83 00:05:33.850 --> 00:05:39.120 day doing a job where your job is to output or to increase the number 84 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.839 of leads you get if you honestly didn't believe that you could get anything? 85 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.759 So I was talking what last week, talking an HR conference. Hundred people 86 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.550 in room. Ask the same question. How many people in this room believe 87 00:05:49.629 --> 00:05:54.029 they could go home and do something? It would dramatically impact how many people 88 00:05:54.029 --> 00:05:59.269 applied for their jobs. One personal a hundred grace their hands. Nobody even 89 00:05:59.470 --> 00:06:03.740 believes that they could do anything. And yet the number to look at is 90 00:06:03.819 --> 00:06:08.660 like sixty eighty percent of pounds, who you listen to of employees are unhappy 91 00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:13.220 where they work. They're literally unhappy with their job. Twenty five percent of 92 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:17.060 them are actively unhappy, meaning they're on indeed at lunch or on their smoke 93 00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:20.569 breaker while they're in the bathroom. Right they're on indeed looking for a new 94 00:06:20.649 --> 00:06:26.410 job. And so the number of unemployment is the wrong number, because nobody 95 00:06:26.449 --> 00:06:30.449 really hires unemployed people anyway. Nobody wants say that, but we tend to 96 00:06:30.529 --> 00:06:36.160 filter them out. So the people that are out there actively looking are unhappy 97 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:41.560 at their job. We just so if we use this power shortage seeing it 98 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:46.560 just means we give up. There's just some interesting reasons why we give up 99 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.310 and how they give up and what it means. But I know of my 100 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:53.230 company we don't have a hard time hiring. We picked our niche, we 101 00:06:53.389 --> 00:06:57.509 know who we target. We Post job, we get lots of applicants and 102 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:00.939 so even for us, we're nonfunded, but we can hire programmers. So 103 00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:08.579 if there's really a programmer shortage, then unfunded boots trap guys like me shouldn't 104 00:07:08.579 --> 00:07:12.620 be able to have any programmers because we can't pay the same rate as funded 105 00:07:12.699 --> 00:07:16.089 companies. We don't have ping pong, we don't have fancy offices. So 106 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:19.689 if the theory held true that there was a shortage of, say, programmers, 107 00:07:20.089 --> 00:07:23.810 then me, at the bottom end of the spectrum, shouldn't be able 108 00:07:23.810 --> 00:07:27.410 to hire programmer at all. Yes, I don't think we've had a programmer 109 00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:30.759 opening last two years that we didn't fill within thirty days. Well, so 110 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.199 we're talking about somethings from out offline right, to speak in marketing terms, 111 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:39.279 what you're describing right, with these folks who are not the the unemployed, 112 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.120 who's, I think, who a lot of folks have in mind when they 113 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:45.230 talk about like who's out there looking for jobs, like you described. We're 114 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:48.069 talking about, in marketing terms, this dark funnel, right, these folks 115 00:07:48.189 --> 00:07:54.430 with intent that we just need to tap into and be able to identify and 116 00:07:54.629 --> 00:07:59.019 measure the same way that we would do if we were looking at Lee's sure 117 00:07:59.060 --> 00:08:01.500 or so like. For my business. So, so I started about fifteen 118 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:07.500 years ago, and fifteen years ago, selling hiring software was a phenomenal time. 119 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:09.660 Like it was easy, like lowhanging troop, will call it, if 120 00:08:09.699 --> 00:08:13.769 you're selling hiring software as moment sized company. To that point in time, 121 00:08:13.129 --> 00:08:18.089 eighty percent of business has had nothing. So clearly it was pretty easy. 122 00:08:18.129 --> 00:08:22.050 We were well, not easy, but we were selling them about engaging new 123 00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:26.850 technology, about leaving behind nothing and getting technology. Fast forward to today. 124 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:31.879 Now it's reversed and eighty percent of businesses have sometime hiring technology. So now 125 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:33.960 we can look at and say, well, Gosh, if our target market 126 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:39.919 is people who don't have tech, then clearly our markets getting smaller and smaller 127 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:41.710 and if we don't do something, we're going to run out of lead. 128 00:08:43.070 --> 00:08:45.789 As a marketer, a salesperson, entrepreneur, I say, well, Gosh, 129 00:08:45.870 --> 00:08:48.389 now we need to switch gears. Now we need to aim our market, 130 00:08:48.909 --> 00:08:52.549 our marketing message, our sales message, at switching people from the system 131 00:08:52.549 --> 00:08:56.580 they're using. It's ineffective to our system. And so it's a shift in 132 00:08:56.659 --> 00:09:03.860 mentality. But that mentality doesn't happen in HR and there's some interesting had this 133 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:07.019 just to interesting reasons behind it. As I'd consider myself like an outsider. 134 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:11.889 I don't have any h our background, so I'm not an HR person. 135 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:15.529 So I show up on the scene, I'm not from the HR space and 136 00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:18.490 I'm not from the HR industry and I'm also not like a recruiter or a 137 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.049 staffing person, which is a lot of times where soccera providers come from in 138 00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:26.120 the Startup Lan. And so I just don't have a horse in the race. 139 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:28.919 And so it's been super interesting for us to look and go, wait 140 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.440 a minute, you went and told your boss that there's no applicants for your 141 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.870 programming job and he was just okay with that. Like you just said, 142 00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:41.990 there's nobody for us to hire or we just can't get any applicants. And 143 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:46.909 he literally just said, Oh wow, I heard that one. I was 144 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:50.590 golfing with my buddy too. I guess it just sucks to be up like 145 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:54.860 it's it's such a it is such a strange world we live in, because 146 00:09:54.899 --> 00:10:00.460 a marketer or a sales manager or a product person who came to the sea 147 00:10:00.500 --> 00:10:05.379 level with that same kind of theme thing. We can't get what you want, 148 00:10:05.139 --> 00:10:09.289 we've been told to go figure it out. Yeah, they would if 149 00:10:09.330 --> 00:10:13.289 to get outside the box, take a new approach, change what you're doing, 150 00:10:13.850 --> 00:10:18.570 go do something different. But instead, for whatever reason, HR love 151 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:22.080 them to death, but they're viewed kind of like tax accountants and attorneys, 152 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:24.000 where the sea level looks at and says, well, they know hiring and 153 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:28.399 we don't, and so I guess if they say that, it must be 154 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:33.039 true, and then that to stop rate with. That's what we have to 155 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:35.629 stop with. Labels, titles, Personas. At the end of the day, 156 00:10:35.629 --> 00:10:43.629 right marketers and sales leaders and sales people are job in essence, is 157 00:10:43.110 --> 00:10:46.509 to know people. So we don't have to know higher wing, we don't 158 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:52.059 have to know HR in order to be effective in hiring right infective, intracting 159 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:56.220 talent. We just have to accept the fact that that is what we're doing 160 00:10:56.299 --> 00:11:01.460 right, and that there is a stird responsibility. It's the more because it 161 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:03.809 is really easy, with so much on your plate, to be like that's 162 00:11:03.850 --> 00:11:07.370 HR, as they are h ours, the ones that's in charge of doing 163 00:11:07.450 --> 00:11:11.129 that. It is going to have to become a collaborative thing, right, 164 00:11:11.730 --> 00:11:18.240 we're recruitment marketing is a real thing that is either included in hr or works 165 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:24.200 alongside HR. But this business that you just described is, you know, 166 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.279 it's not serving anybody, not the least of which those those dark funnel applicants. 167 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.720 Know, would be applicants who are looking to, you know, switch 168 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.309 roles or switch industries or what have you, and don't know that these roles 169 00:11:35.350 --> 00:11:39.789 exist because they're not being marketed to right. Well, well, it's just 170 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:43.870 think about this way. Like if you take an you say how important is 171 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:48.500 is talent to the successful organization? Right, so we just take talent, 172 00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:52.620 meaning the employees that we have, which therefore also means the employees we get 173 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:56.179 in the future. How important is that to our organization? Well as the 174 00:11:56.259 --> 00:12:01.179 Tech Company, the ideas and the code that gets thrown the product I have 175 00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:03.529 today. I didn't buy it off the shelf. I'm not reselling it from 176 00:12:03.570 --> 00:12:09.169 somebody else. It literally came out of the brains of the people I hired 177 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:13.330 right and the marketing ideas came out of the brains of my marketers. And 178 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:18.039 it doesn't do them any good to generate leads if I don't have a funnel 179 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.080 of sales people well, or SDRs or bdrs, whatever you want to call 180 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.960 them, to call those leaves and schedule Demos. And that would do no 181 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:31.669 good if you didn't have a funnel of sales people to call and close those 182 00:12:31.750 --> 00:12:33.990 deals. And so if you look up and down the line of a company 183 00:12:35.389 --> 00:12:39.070 from marketing to sales, to on boarding to customer support to products, and 184 00:12:39.110 --> 00:12:43.509 whether that's the tech company or manufacturing company or a hotel, I mean think 185 00:12:43.509 --> 00:12:46.259 about it. You don't go to a hotel just to stay in the hotel. 186 00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:50.139 Part of that product you're buying is how clean the room is and how 187 00:12:50.179 --> 00:12:52.860 nice the person is at the front desk and how good they are at solving 188 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:56.539 the problem you have when you're there because you forgot your swim suit or you 189 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.970 forgot something that was there. The product you're buying a huge chunk of that 190 00:13:01.370 --> 00:13:07.649 is the talent of the organization. So if talent is that important, right, 191 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:13.200 then look at the budget that we allocate to hiring versus a marketing or 192 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.600 look at how the pay of the executive over hiring versus marketing, or even 193 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.080 even if you have an executive, or even if you have somebody who only 194 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.279 is over hiring, because most organizations say sub a hundred, sub five hundred, 195 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:28.870 it's like, Oh yeah, I also do hiring, but I also 196 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:33.149 do the paychecks, I also over benefit, I'm also all over all this 197 00:13:33.389 --> 00:13:37.309 stuff. And and even the person, we like to call them accidental hr 198 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:39.870 if you look, if you look at organizations a sub five hundred, there's 199 00:13:39.870 --> 00:13:46.059 about a fifty chance of a person sitting in that chair. Is Not like 200 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:48.299 they don't have a business free they probably don't even have an HR degree. 201 00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:52.139 If they have a degree, they probably have like a psychology or sociology degree, 202 00:13:52.659 --> 00:13:56.970 not even a business one or an HR degree. They kind of like 203 00:13:56.210 --> 00:14:01.129 accidentally became an HR person. Right, and I clearly accidentally became a marketer. 204 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:05.970 But most marketers don't accidentally become marketers, right. They study it in 205 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.090 college, they have a pathway, they go through it. Most people don't 206 00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:15.080 accidentally become programmers. But HR has this huge group of folks that like they 207 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.759 were the receptionists and they helped with payroll and they became part of the payroll 208 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.679 team. Then the company grew and suddenly they're a Dh our manager, which 209 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.350 is why it's so unfair to then ask of these people to perform marketing functions 210 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:30.110 at the end of the day likely. So you'RE gonna have to split these 211 00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:33.429 things up and then have it have teams or something smarter. People out there 212 00:14:33.470 --> 00:14:37.149 maybe are thinking and talking about this. You be on one of them. 213 00:14:37.629 --> 00:14:39.899 I do want to make sure we get to the the other segments in the 214 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:45.139 show and no one won't run long, but there's a briggin million more questions 215 00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:48.820 I want to end about this. So you know what, you just going 216 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:52.700 to have to come on the show again ask you to give one more little 217 00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:56.490 piece of parting wisdom on the matter before we move on to the next segment. 218 00:14:56.929 --> 00:15:00.210 So the really easy part of it is really the what you said that 219 00:15:00.529 --> 00:15:03.929 recruitment marketing. I think that might make it a little too high level. 220 00:15:03.009 --> 00:15:07.090 Just think about it. That really if you want to have a good hiring 221 00:15:07.129 --> 00:15:11.080 process and attract good people, then it needs to be about just the definition 222 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.720 of that. Attract good people says. It needs to be about them, 223 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:20.440 not you. Probably the biggest differences. If you go look at take five 224 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.590 minutes, read your blog post, read your marketing mature you put out there 225 00:15:24.669 --> 00:15:28.309 and then read your job at such are poste and my guess you will see 226 00:15:28.549 --> 00:15:35.190 instantly the start contrast between content that's written for the target audience and that content 227 00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:39.940 that's written about what you demand of the target audience. That is a very, 228 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:45.379 very contrasting thing to look at. Save blog post versus job ads, 229 00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:48.179 and as a marketer, which I know, Tony, your audience is, 230 00:15:48.580 --> 00:15:52.690 you should instantly that should click and go, holy crap. The goal of 231 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:56.330 this job ad is to get people to want to apply for a job at 232 00:15:56.330 --> 00:16:00.690 our company, is to make our grasp appear greener than the grass where they're 233 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.759 standing, and this does not do that. Just just got one will change 234 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.879 forget everything else if that was the only change organizations made. Go read your 235 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.240 job out and say, if I was a job seeker, would this make 236 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:17.840 me want to apply? With this put this job in the right light? 237 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:19.830 Would have put our company in the right light? Would this make our graphs 238 00:16:21.070 --> 00:16:25.750 seem greener than where I'm at today, at my current organization that I'm on 239 00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:30.909 happy with, and I guarantee everybody on this call instantly go, Oh heck 240 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:36.179 now there's there's nothing exciting about this add. It doesn't make me want to 241 00:16:36.259 --> 00:16:42.340 apply. And that right there is the fundamental issue across the board when it 242 00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:47.169 comes to hiring. Yeah, our entire hiring process about us. It's not 243 00:16:47.210 --> 00:16:49.210 about the job seeker. Yep, Yep. That is the that is the 244 00:16:49.250 --> 00:16:56.730 disconnect. And so if the if the job add is not attractive, and 245 00:16:56.929 --> 00:17:00.210 think about who the people are that still respond to it and why, you 246 00:17:00.250 --> 00:17:06.279 should all be summized. That's spread right the most seperate people. It's stuff 247 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.039 out here, like I said, kind of back on but up. Thank 248 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.960 you so much for laying this out force the way that you did, and 249 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.000 now that I successfully picked your brain and seeing what I could get out of 250 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.390 it, ran you got to tell us what you're putting in it. Man, 251 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:21.750 it's tough for you to tell us about a learning resource you engage with 252 00:17:21.990 --> 00:17:23.309 that is, you know, for when your approach. This just got you 253 00:17:23.470 --> 00:17:27.430 excited these days? Oh sure, so, so I believe in I'm kind 254 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:32.460 of a huge stoic right. So you know the Ryan holiday type books of 255 00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:34.339 the obstacle is the way and some of those things. I know you said 256 00:17:34.539 --> 00:17:37.900 you're doing meditation. He's got a new book coming out on stillness which I 257 00:17:38.019 --> 00:17:41.859 guarantee I'll be reading next month. But to us we look at it, 258 00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:48.690 to me, obstacles way and anything dealing where turning like these challenges into strengths. 259 00:17:48.329 --> 00:17:52.049 So I love the obstacle as a way book. It's one of my 260 00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:56.049 favorite ones. I reread it's probably like every month I'll go back and be 261 00:17:56.170 --> 00:17:59.319 like, all right, what are my challenges? How am I going to 262 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:03.440 like turn these into strength? And so this being a great example, this 263 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.480 talent shortage. If everybody believes it's bad, to that one company who says 264 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:14.470 f this, we can figure it out is just dominates everybody because they there 265 00:18:14.509 --> 00:18:17.109 were the ones who said we're going to make this challenge not just we're not 266 00:18:17.150 --> 00:18:21.029 just going to overcome it, we're straight up going to make it our strength. 267 00:18:22.029 --> 00:18:25.509 I love and so, yeah, obstacles way favorite book ever. Love 268 00:18:25.589 --> 00:18:30.339 rereading that one. Sould. I cannot wait to attitude my audible library. 269 00:18:32.099 --> 00:18:36.059 What I know. What I know ran because this has been such a lively 270 00:18:36.220 --> 00:18:40.859 and passionate discussions, everything I ever want out of these conversations. I know 271 00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:42.809 that everybody listening, just like me, has become a fast fan of yours 272 00:18:42.849 --> 00:18:45.609 and they're going to want to know how to keep up with you. So 273 00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:48.369 tell us how folks can connect with you, Ryan Sue. Sure so. 274 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:52.009 Clearly, you can go to African PROCOM. You can go sign up. 275 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:57.079 We put out video content every week and most of it is thought leadership content 276 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.079 around us how to make your organization higher better. You can reach me the 277 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.359 email. You send me an email to Ryan Cooler at African PROCOM. Easiest 278 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:07.519 way to reach me. That usually where I'm at. I'm either doing that 279 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.789 or putting videos out, and so either those methods. Clearly, I'm on 280 00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:15.950 Linkedin, because I mean the HR space, you got be on Linkedin Right, 281 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.710 Yep, you've got to. Well, thank you so much, man. 282 00:19:18.750 --> 00:19:19.630 I guess I'm serious. We got to have you on again so we 283 00:19:19.670 --> 00:19:26.099 can have some more a passionate debates, conversation and insight on the mini subjects 284 00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:30.180 I involved in what you do. Thank you so much. Yeah, thanks 285 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:36.660 for having me. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content 286 00:19:36.819 --> 00:19:38.289 on this podcast, and it can be a lot to keep up with. 287 00:19:38.849 --> 00:19:44.130 That's why we've started the BETB growth big three, a note fluff email that 288 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:48.970 boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up 289 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:55.960 today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. 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