1115: 3 Keys to Avoiding the Sales and Marketing Blame Game w/ Amanda Bohne

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.519 Want to expand the reach of your content, start a podcast, feature industry 2 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:08.910 experts on your show and leverage the influence and reach of your guests to grow 3 00:00:08.990 --> 00:00:18.309 your brand. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to be tob 4 00:00:18.429 --> 00:00:23.260 growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably 5 00:00:23.300 --> 00:00:27.059 heard before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never 6 00:00:27.179 --> 00:00:31.300 heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews 7 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:35.810 aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches 8 00:00:35.929 --> 00:00:40.609 leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, 9 00:00:40.929 --> 00:00:45.250 they're building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James 10 00:00:45.289 --> 00:00:48.890 Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB 11 00:00:49.009 --> 00:00:52.320 brands, and I'm also one of the CO hosts of this show. When 12 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:56.320 we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes 13 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.039 of our own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as 14 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.349 we attempt to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get 15 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:12.670 into the show. Welcome back to BEDB growth. I am your host for 16 00:01:12.790 --> 00:01:17.549 today's episode, Nikki. I be with sweet fish media. Guys. I've 17 00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:22.379 got with me today Amanda Bone, who is vice president of marketing at APP 18 00:01:22.459 --> 00:01:25.420 Netta. Amanda, how you doing today? I'm great. Thank you so 19 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:27.620 much for having me good. You know what, I'm glad that you're here. 20 00:01:27.659 --> 00:01:30.900 We're going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects, in one 21 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.329 that you know, I like to hear about from every different angle that there 22 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:40.689 is, and that's how to get sales and marketing alignment in in high growth 23 00:01:40.969 --> 00:01:42.810 companies, and so I can't way to dig into that with you. But 24 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:47.439 before we do, Amanda, I would love if you just give us a 25 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:49.959 little bit of background on yourself when you and the folks that a Metta have 26 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.079 been up to these days. Sure. So, I'm, as you mentioned, 27 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.680 the Vice President of marketing. So my team and I are responsible for 28 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:04.709 all things marketing, from demand generation to content PR social maintaining our website, 29 00:02:05.150 --> 00:02:08.469 product marketing, all of that good stuff, and we do that in pursuit 30 00:02:08.750 --> 00:02:14.750 of helping our sales team really penetrate the item markets. So a little bit 31 00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:17.979 about what a Meta does. We are in the network performance monitoring space. 32 00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:22.419 So what does that mean for US marketers? Well, all of us rely 33 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:27.860 on critical applications, whether that sales force or Google or office three hundred and 34 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:30.370 sixty five, to get our work done and you know that when one of 35 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:35.330 those applications isn't working, it is painful and it stops you from being able 36 00:02:35.330 --> 00:02:38.889 to do your job. And so what it is tasked with is making sure 37 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:43.050 that that doesn't happen, that you don't lose productivity because you can't access the 38 00:02:43.169 --> 00:02:47.080 network where those critical applications and so what Athleta does is we empower it to 39 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:52.400 have visibility so that they can solve those sorts of problems, ideally before you 40 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:55.960 even see them as problems or or recognize them in your workflow. See. 41 00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.349 So it's really important work you guys do, absolutely, because if that was 42 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:05.789 left up to the Nikkis of the world, is a lot of trouble. 43 00:03:06.349 --> 00:03:10.469 So, with respect to sales and marketing alignment that relationships is a really important 44 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:14.300 one but, as we all know, it's one that just seems to be 45 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:17.860 super difficult to get right in something everybody's striving for. Talk a little bit, 46 00:03:17.900 --> 00:03:23.099 Amanda, about why you think it does prove so difficult for so many 47 00:03:23.139 --> 00:03:25.939 organizations. Yeah, you know, I think this is a relationship that is 48 00:03:27.490 --> 00:03:31.009 is challenging for many organizations, and I think that's because there's such an interesting 49 00:03:31.129 --> 00:03:37.849 blend of cooperation and competition that happens between marketing and sale teams. You know, 50 00:03:38.050 --> 00:03:40.680 on one hand we're all working together for the same goal. More sales 51 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.960 is good for all of us, but on the other hand it's easy to 52 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.919 blame the other one when something doesn't go right, and so the result you 53 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.479 kind of get this tenuest relationship right, with this this push pull, and 54 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:58.870 I think so much of that really starts from the top. It starts from 55 00:03:59.349 --> 00:04:03.750 leadership and the tone that we set for our teams. Because when when we 56 00:04:03.949 --> 00:04:09.590 set the tone that you know there are wouldn't say enemy hopefully nobody thinks that, 57 00:04:09.789 --> 00:04:13.699 but right they're. They're not necessarily working for the same goal as us. 58 00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:15.740 Then that trus down to the rest of the company. But when it 59 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:20.220 works right, when we are seeing as partners and everyone in the organization, 60 00:04:20.620 --> 00:04:25.529 both marketing and sales, feels that way, or at least functions that way, 61 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:30.329 you know it really works for everyone. There was a great example which 62 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:33.490 I like couldn't make up if I tried where I was. I was recently 63 00:04:33.569 --> 00:04:36.730 talking to a sales wrap at an event we were at and he said to 64 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:41.319 me, you know, Amanda, how can I get you more budget? 65 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.240 And I sort of took a step back, like what, and he said, 66 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.079 you know, I actually trust you with the marketing budget. I trust 67 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:50.720 what you're doing, I like what you're doing and I know that you get 68 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:54.509 more budget, you're going to get me more leads, I'm going to be 69 00:04:54.589 --> 00:04:56.990 able to close them and that's going to be more money in my pocket. 70 00:04:57.069 --> 00:04:59.949 So like, what can I do to get you more budget, which was, 71 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:02.430 I mean, amazing. That's the dream. But but I start it 72 00:05:02.589 --> 00:05:06.740 right. Almost startling to hear that because that's so rare and I think that 73 00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:12.060 that's testament to what happens when this really works right, when we see this 74 00:05:12.220 --> 00:05:15.540 as a symbiotic relationship. Yeah, for sure, it's interesting. When you 75 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:21.089 were first describing the relationship, it reminded me of my my two teenage girls, 76 00:05:21.170 --> 00:05:25.449 which another I don't mean to because tie it right, but there's this 77 00:05:25.610 --> 00:05:29.370 there's this idea that, yeah, we work together, we love each other, 78 00:05:29.449 --> 00:05:32.769 but some terms stuff is just hards and there's a fingers pointed when stuff 79 00:05:32.850 --> 00:05:36.560 goes wrong as to WHO's to blame. So, and I think you're right 80 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:40.480 about this idea of it having to come from the from the top, and 81 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:46.519 having that tone set and modeled by the leaders of those two disciplines. As 82 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:50.470 far as you know, how folks should get along. But how? How? 83 00:05:50.670 --> 00:05:57.430 Tell us some ways that folks can help maintain those healthy relationships between marketing 84 00:05:57.509 --> 00:06:00.069 and sales? Yeah, for me I think it comes down to three key 85 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:04.899 things, and the first and I think frankly the most important, is that 86 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:10.339 you can't make it about credit. WHO GETS CREDIT FOR THIS DEAL? Is 87 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:14.939 it marketing in the sales? Of course we measure marketing contribution right. I 88 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:18.370 mean that's an important part of any marketing organization is to understand what you're actually 89 00:06:18.410 --> 00:06:23.930 delivering. Are we contributing to the organization? So not shirking responsibility on that 90 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:27.529 front by any means, but we really try to make sure that it's not 91 00:06:27.649 --> 00:06:30.850 about marketing versus sales. Was this only marketing or was this only sales? 92 00:06:30.889 --> 00:06:34.040 Because the reality is that went again. When these things are working right, 93 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:39.639 we should have multiple touch points with a potential customer. It should be a 94 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:44.120 coordinated effort between marketing and sales, and so it's it's not one or the 95 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.589 other, it's how do we work together? And so when we frame it 96 00:06:46.990 --> 00:06:50.470 as not about who gets credit, I think that goes a really long way. 97 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:55.709 The second thing is just like purely operational, right, and there's they're 98 00:06:55.949 --> 00:07:00.629 a legistical element to about, you know, about retaining maintaining, excuse me, 99 00:07:00.629 --> 00:07:04.300 a healthy relationship. We have weekly or by week lead depending on what's 100 00:07:04.300 --> 00:07:09.860 going on, leadership meetings between the the marketing org and a sales or to 101 00:07:09.980 --> 00:07:14.220 talk about programs, to make sure we're aligned on WHO's going to event, 102 00:07:14.620 --> 00:07:18.569 all of that sort of thing. And then we have sales team meeting that 103 00:07:18.649 --> 00:07:25.290 are held regularly and marketing joins those meetings on occasion to and pretty regularly actually, 104 00:07:25.449 --> 00:07:30.040 to give updates on programs and to, you know, get feedback on 105 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.959 programs, so that we're not just sharing out information, but we're actually looking 106 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:38.439 to receive information and feedback from the sales team as well. So, you 107 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.639 know, there's just kind of a logistical element of in order to stay on 108 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:45.069 the same page, you have to actually communicate. The places where I've seen 109 00:07:45.110 --> 00:07:49.829 this done right these meetings where where sales folks and and it sounds so obvious, 110 00:07:49.949 --> 00:07:54.389 but it's just not the way people do things as far as having meetings 111 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:57.310 together. But you go on, you you were having at another point to 112 00:07:57.350 --> 00:08:01.060 hit on this. Yeah, and I think the third thing kind of comes 113 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:03.220 back to the first about not making it about credit, which is that we 114 00:08:03.500 --> 00:08:09.060 celebrate wins together. You know, we recently had a cross functional campaign that 115 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:13.449 was usually successful and there was a sales spiff involved and if we had hit 116 00:08:13.569 --> 00:08:18.370 this certain milestone, we were taking the sales team out to you know, 117 00:08:18.449 --> 00:08:22.850 like an afternoon of billiards and bowling and food and drink and stuff like that. 118 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:24.810 And we really took a step back and we said, wait, why 119 00:08:24.850 --> 00:08:28.360 are we only including the sales team? This was a holy cross functional effort, 120 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.879 and so we broadened it up and we included marketing, we included other 121 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:37.039 key teams that participated in that, and I think that again, that reinforces 122 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.559 the tone that, you know, it's not just sales on an island, 123 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.470 it's not just marketing on an island, but we win together and so when 124 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.429 we went together, we celebrate together and that just makes everyone feel that much 125 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:52.509 more excited about being willing to really partner together. You know, that's really 126 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:58.059 interesting. I've seen teams that celebrate wins together, as you just described, 127 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:03.779 between marketing the sales. I haven't seen marketing included in spiffs before the way 128 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:07.379 that you just describe. That's that's one that, if I'm running the show, 129 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:11.409 that I still from you guys ride right away. And so what what 130 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:16.049 can marketing leaders do to earn trust from sales teams? I was having a 131 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:22.049 conversation with gentlemen on this show a few weeks ago and we sort of landed 132 00:09:22.129 --> 00:09:28.200 at that point right where if you've got pushed back or friction between these two 133 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.559 groups of Queen Marketing and sales, or fiftly, between sales leadership and marketing, 134 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.679 isn't because there's a lack of trust of what marketing is doing in sales 135 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.710 as interest or toward these common goals. So, yeah, talk about what 136 00:09:41.909 --> 00:09:46.389 marketing leaders can do to earn sales teams trust. I think it really all 137 00:09:46.509 --> 00:09:50.190 boils down to feedback and transparency to, you know, address exactly what you 138 00:09:50.309 --> 00:09:54.100 just mentioned right. I mean we have to build trust, we have to 139 00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:56.100 make it clear that we're in this together, and I think the way to 140 00:09:56.179 --> 00:10:01.779 do that is seem ask for feedback early and often. You know, when 141 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.259 I started, right out of the gate, I met with sales leadership, 142 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:09.049 I met with members of the sales team to ask for feedback. What do 143 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:13.169 you want to see? What's your Dream Marketing Campaign? What's what hasn't marketing 144 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:16.850 been given you? And that's not to say we did every single thing, 145 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:18.809 but there were a lot of great ideas in there and that helped point me 146 00:10:18.850 --> 00:10:22.840 in the right direction. There were a lot of quick wins, frankly, 147 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.919 that we were able to do. That helps us establish credibility quickly, and 148 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.639 this isn't something that you have to do only when you first start a job. 149 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.159 I mean, I think any of us can do this at any time. 150 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.509 It just takes a little bit of effort to to actually reach out to 151 00:10:35.629 --> 00:10:41.070 people and keep an open mind about what they're going to share with you. 152 00:10:41.789 --> 00:10:45.909 And I think you know, being transparent about what we're doing. You know, 153 00:10:46.110 --> 00:10:48.750 not off marketing programs work. That's just the reality of it and we 154 00:10:48.870 --> 00:10:52.940 have to be honest about it, otherwise we lose credibility. So, for 155 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:56.620 example, we did a program recently that was something new. It was a 156 00:10:56.700 --> 00:11:00.620 direct mail program. We had never done it before, and so when we 157 00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:03.100 met with the sales team to Breefe them on this, we said, you 158 00:11:03.179 --> 00:11:05.929 know, here's what's happening, here's what we expect to see, here's what 159 00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:09.450 we're expecting of you. Here are the areas where, frankly, we're not 160 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:13.730 really sure exactly what to expect. We have these assumptions and this is kind 161 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:18.200 of what we planned for, but we're not actually sure exactly how this component 162 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.360 into it is going to you know, what sort of results we're going to 163 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.240 see, and I think that that really was helpful, as maybe counterintuitive as 164 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:31.080 that sounded, because, you know, we're all imperfect and not all marketing 165 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.149 programs work, and if we act like we're installable and that every program is 166 00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:39.230 going to be, you know, a gift from God that's going to bestows, 167 00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:41.389 you know, leads, then too you right. I mean that's just 168 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:46.350 not how it happens, and so we kind of lose credibility if we act 169 00:11:46.429 --> 00:11:50.259 like everything is always going to work, and I think showing a little bit 170 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:54.340 of vulnerability, being transparent about what we're looking for from them to help us 171 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:58.820 that out. Is this something that's going to work for us, really goes 172 00:11:58.820 --> 00:12:01.490 a long way. Yeah, I think so. I mean is there is 173 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:03.250 there a flip side of that, though, as far as what sales teams 174 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:07.450 can do to earn the respect of their marketing team or the trust of their 175 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:09.610 marketing team? That is yeah, I definitely think so. I think that 176 00:12:09.649 --> 00:12:15.409 absolutely goes both ways. You know, for them it's really being willing to 177 00:12:15.570 --> 00:12:18.600 share that feedback. I think so often, right as marketers were here, 178 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.759 these leads were crap, these leads were no good, this event was terrible. 179 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.799 Okay, if you can't tell me why they're crap, then that makes 180 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:31.149 it nearly impossible for us to better target them in the future. Right. 181 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:35.269 Where the companies you do too small? Where they the wrong people? Was 182 00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:39.029 it that, you know, our follow up campaign was wrong? I think. 183 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:41.909 You know, feedback goes both ways and it's our job as marketers to 184 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:46.580 ask for it, but it's also, you know, sales his role to 185 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.139 be able to be specific and actionable with that feedback the next time. Yeah, 186 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.419 I think you're absolutely right. I just wanted to make sure we were 187 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:56.659 keeping it equitable here, because a lot of the time the way to conversations 188 00:12:56.779 --> 00:12:58.649 go is that, you know, they do put a lot of the onus 189 00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:03.049 on a marketing. I feel like a lot of time we're always asking marketing 190 00:13:03.129 --> 00:13:07.330 folks to justify their existence, so to speak, justify their budget in a 191 00:13:07.370 --> 00:13:11.529 way that we don't ask of salespeople. And then you guys still market still 192 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:16.519 get comments like the ones you mentioned about leads being crap. We need better 193 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.519 leads, and so the truth is always somewhere in between, right and so 194 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.720 I absolutely as as a person who spend some time in the startup sales streets, 195 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:28.230 I just always want to make sure I'm keeping us on it. been 196 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:31.590 accountable as well, but because, frank over the time that I've been doing 197 00:13:31.669 --> 00:13:37.110 the show I've talked to mostly marketers and have gotten to understand and respect what 198 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:41.220 you all do in a way that I didn't have access to as a an 199 00:13:41.259 --> 00:13:46.259 individual contributor on a sales team. And so so thank you for further way 200 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:48.500 that you laid all this out for us. I got to ask you, 201 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:54.700 you know, any any parting thoughts or recommendations for people who are reaching before 202 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:58.330 having me this healthy relationship between these two disciplines. You know, Alignman doesn't 203 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.970 just happen. I think that's kind of my most important takeaway here. You 204 00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:07.009 know, it's something that require thought, it requires effort from both parties. 205 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.080 We all say we want to bills and marketing alignment, but it's not. 206 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.440 To your point, it's not up to only marketing to drive that. It's 207 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.960 not up to only sales. We both have to be willing to collaborate and 208 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.720 work together to create that sort of environment. And you know, for us 209 00:14:24.309 --> 00:14:26.629 that how we've been successful with this comes a lot from our company culture. 210 00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:31.269 We have three values transparency, performance and trust, and so you know, 211 00:14:31.429 --> 00:14:35.870 that really has been the guideline for how we operate the company and how we 212 00:14:35.029 --> 00:14:39.500 think about this relationship between sales and marketing. But even with that as our 213 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:43.340 company culture and sort of the the underlying foundation of how we do things, 214 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:46.580 that Atta, you know, this is a still a relationship that we work 215 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:50.139 at every day and every week trying to make sure that we're, you know, 216 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:52.889 we can be the best we can be for our team. So I 217 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.529 think you know this isn't this isn't a one and done conversation that you have 218 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:01.730 with your counterpart and marketing or sales, but it's something that you know in 219 00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:05.570 everyday effort to really make it successful. I love it. I love that 220 00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:07.120 you that you hit that last point as well as not like. All right, 221 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:13.480 we aligned exactly, and so now that's part of the show. Now 222 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.080 that you've layed this all out for us and I've been able to successfully pick 223 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.120 your brain, it's time for you to tell us what you've been putting in 224 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.909 it. This time for you to talk about a learning resource you engage with 225 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:33.070 that is either informing your approach or this just got you who excited these days? 226 00:15:33.909 --> 00:15:37.899 HMM, that's a good question. You know, I really love hbr, 227 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:41.779 the Harvard Business Review, because I think they have some really useful tips 228 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:48.100 about just generally how you manage a team, how you think about business, 229 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:50.330 and I think a lot of times we sort of think, well, I'm 230 00:15:50.330 --> 00:15:54.250 a marketer, I have to read lets of marketing stuff, and that's true. 231 00:15:54.250 --> 00:15:58.009 There are tons of really valuable marketing books, marketing publications. I definitely 232 00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:02.889 pay attention to those as well. But I think sometimes, especially on the 233 00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:07.440 topic of sales and marketing alignment, we're actually talking about marketing tactics here. 234 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.000 We're talking about people, how to motivate people, how to, you know, 235 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.000 get the results that you want for your business, and so sometimes it's 236 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.950 really helpful to up level and think about more than just marketing and think about 237 00:16:18.950 --> 00:16:22.230 business, and I think that HB are in also has a lot of great 238 00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:26.429 articles about that, does a nice job of kind of helping you to zoom 239 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:30.389 out and think about the macrow things that your business is facing beyond just the 240 00:16:30.470 --> 00:16:33.779 day to day marketing tactics. I love it, Hbr for the win, 241 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:38.580 and I think you're so right as far as getting out of your your disciplines, 242 00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:45.220 or even your industries Echo Chamber and learning from folks that are are doing 243 00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:48.809 things successfully in the broader sense right, because what we're really talking about the 244 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:53.850 end of the day is how humans relate to, and learn from and work 245 00:16:53.889 --> 00:16:59.610 alongside other humans, which is a littly right. Right is up whether you're 246 00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:03.320 a marketer, a salesperson or anything else. So thank you so much for 247 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.880 lanning that out. I've had the best time with you, having this conversation 248 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.680 and laying out some of these really actionable, thoughtful points as far as how 249 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.880 to achieve that alignment, and so I know that, just like me, 250 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.230 our listeners are going to become fast fans of yours and want to keep up 251 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:19.750 with you. I mean to tell us how folks can connect with you. 252 00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:23.230 Yeah, Hily the best way and you can reach me on twitter. It's 253 00:17:23.309 --> 00:17:29.630 at Amanda Bone Bone is Bo Hny and I look forward to hearing a feedback 254 00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:33.140 here and what's working or not working for folks on can't wait to connect. 255 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:34.900 Thank you so much. This was great. There's I have a million other 256 00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:38.140 questions to ask you on somebody's that we don't have anything to do with the 257 00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:42.539 Lignement, but just because of your experience and your expertise and your passion for 258 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.930 this thing, I think I'm just gonna have to have me on here. 259 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:51.930 Thank you so much. Thank you. You have so much youtube, but 260 00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:59.319 bye. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this 261 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.759 podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've 262 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.440 started the BOB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our 263 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.240 three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet 264 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:18.269 Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three