1113: Lead Gen Techniques That Must Stop Now Please w/ Steve Baruch

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.799 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.230 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:10.349 --> 00:00:15.429 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:25.699 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:30.500 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.420 before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.729 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:43.289 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:48.170 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 10 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.759 building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.320 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.600 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 13 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.600 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 14 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.510 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attend 15 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.590 to take over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:21.500 show. Welcome back to BEDB growth. I am your host for today's episode, 17 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:25.219 Nikki Ivy, with sweetfish media guys. I've got with me to day 18 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:29.939 Steve Brooke. Who is is that coultive, vice president and Chief Strategy and 19 00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:36.170 marketing officer at MSC industrial supply? Steve, how you doing today? Fantastic, 20 00:01:36.290 --> 00:01:38.969 Nikki. Good Morning. How are you? Good morning, I am 21 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:41.370 well. We were just talking about it off line. The Sun is shining. 22 00:01:41.409 --> 00:01:48.079 I cannot complain perfectly. So we're going to be talking about basically how 23 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:57.280 to not be annoying uh greatly din. More specifically, of you legion techniques 24 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:01.230 to stop using, please, and I can't wait to dig into this with 25 00:02:01.390 --> 00:02:05.349 you, but see first I would love it if you would just give us 26 00:02:05.349 --> 00:02:07.830 all a little bit of background on yourself and what you and the folks at 27 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:12.830 MSC have been up to these days. You've bet so MSC. I'm sure 28 00:02:13.069 --> 00:02:15.979 for your audience it may be a new company. So we've been around for 29 00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:22.419 about eighty years. MSC is one of the leading distributors of what we call 30 00:02:22.539 --> 00:02:28.659 Mrro products. Mr Stands from maintenance, repair and operating supplies for manufacturing, 31 00:02:28.699 --> 00:02:34.330 and then the manufacturing space and the key. We serve about three hundredzero customers. 32 00:02:34.729 --> 00:02:39.210 We supply about FIVEZERO suppliers products to them, about a million and a 33 00:02:39.250 --> 00:02:44.169 half different items. And we do that, you know, in the US, 34 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:47.080 Canada, Mexico, with an OMI channel approach. We've got sellers, 35 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:51.919 we've got digital, we've got direct mail, you name it, and our 36 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.599 purpose, are lot in life is to try to make those customers of ours, 37 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:59.229 those manufacturers, better at what they do, make them more productive, 38 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:01.430 make them more competitive and make them better in their space. So that's us 39 00:03:01.469 --> 00:03:06.750 in a nutshell. I love y'All. On a nutshell. I really like 40 00:03:07.150 --> 00:03:12.830 the the very customer centric pros that you just described. Like, but not 41 00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:15.620 in a buzzy, weird customer centric kind of way. It just really seems 42 00:03:15.620 --> 00:03:21.259 like that's the genuine mission behind the way that you guys do business and I 43 00:03:21.699 --> 00:03:23.860 respect that. I love that. That's close to my heart, man. 44 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:27.530 Absolutely. Look, if we're not doing something good for our customers, then 45 00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:30.370 what good are we? What you starre? We so that it's really all 46 00:03:30.409 --> 00:03:32.370 about making our customers better and we feel like if we do that then they're 47 00:03:32.370 --> 00:03:36.090 going to keep us around for a while, right on, right on. 48 00:03:36.409 --> 00:03:39.050 So so let's get into it. Where we are right now in terms of, 49 00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:44.560 you know, these these leagin practices that folks need to stop. Let's 50 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:46.080 back it up a little bit and talk about how we got there. So 51 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:51.000 one of the things that you and I talked about offline is that we're in 52 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.750 this place of unprecedented availability and access to the folks we want to do business 53 00:03:55.870 --> 00:04:00.870 with. Talk to us a little bit about how that created the problem that 54 00:04:00.949 --> 00:04:04.310 we're discussing today. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So I took 55 00:04:04.349 --> 00:04:08.069 a minute, knowing we were going to have this conversation today, and said, 56 00:04:08.069 --> 00:04:12.340 you know, let's just take a quick inventory of one day, one 57 00:04:12.379 --> 00:04:15.860 day, of the outreach that I get or one day of the messages that 58 00:04:15.899 --> 00:04:19.899 I receive. And I've got a handful of places where they come in. 59 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:25.370 So my professional email, by personal email, there's a spam filter on both 60 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:29.129 of those as a junk email collector on both of those. And I looked 61 00:04:29.129 --> 00:04:31.569 at just the total collection of everything that I got in one day on Friday 62 00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:36.209 and it added up to over three hundred and five emails and that given day. 63 00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:41.040 And that's before, linkedin twitter, facebook, any other social any other 64 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:45.079 voice messages, any of the Robo calls. I mean just think about how 65 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.600 bombarded we are these days, and it's because, I think, there is 66 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:55.990 this wide availability of technology that allows for that easier connection. So people are 67 00:04:56.629 --> 00:04:59.310 not just using it, Nikkia, but I would say, abusing it. 68 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:02.470 Yeah, and I say this with a mountain of respect and empathy, I 69 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:05.470 was on the other side of the phone. I did my fair share of 70 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:10.540 dialing and smiling over the years and so I get what people are trying to 71 00:05:10.579 --> 00:05:13.420 do. But Man, Oh man, I got to tell you. You 72 00:05:13.939 --> 00:05:19.180 know that old spider man saying that with great data comes great responsibility, and 73 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:24.970 right now I don't think everybody is quite respecting, you know, the access 74 00:05:25.009 --> 00:05:29.050 that's available these these days as maybe they should. Yeah, and I think 75 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:31.730 maybe part of that is for fear that if they're respecting that access, the 76 00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:35.519 next person isn't and then that person's got the edge and that's that can be 77 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.759 really a completely on your mind. Man, I can meet tough to sup 78 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.600 to navigate, but it doesn't excuse it though. Right. So what I 79 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.759 wanted for sure is what what are some of the so that I don't keep 80 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.750 committing them a lot. I know what are some of the worst offenses out 81 00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:57.269 there. Then we can we can start with focusing on leaving in the past. 82 00:05:57.790 --> 00:06:00.029 You know, and like I mentioned before, this is a little venting. 83 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:03.339 So take this, you know in the spirit that it's intended, also 84 00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:06.620 intended to be a little life but you get to a point where your frustration 85 00:06:06.819 --> 00:06:12.420 overflows and you just have to sound off a little bit. So one one 86 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:17.100 that's particularly to me frustrating is when you get the note email, typically from 87 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:20.610 a complete stranger, somebody you've never heard of in your life, and they 88 00:06:20.610 --> 00:06:25.529 ask you the question if your are you the right contact at your company for 89 00:06:26.089 --> 00:06:28.889 whatever the good or service is, and, by the way, if you're 90 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:32.439 not, could you point me to the person who is? Now, from 91 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.480 a complete stranger, they're asking you to refer them to somebody within your organization 92 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:42.399 for something that you have no idea about. And this happens constantly and I 93 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.839 just have to question you know how often that actually works, that I'm going 94 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.990 to go ahead and refer you to a colleague within my company and risk my 95 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:56.910 credibility because you're looking for the right person to prospect. I don't get it. 96 00:06:58.029 --> 00:07:00.430 Yeah, I I don't do that anymore, but I can relate. 97 00:07:00.500 --> 00:07:04.819 Listen, I can remember a time when I was past to do something similar 98 00:07:04.899 --> 00:07:11.100 to what you just described, and so I do understand why I was past 99 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:15.220 to do that thing and know better now. But what I love about yes, 100 00:07:15.339 --> 00:07:17.170 you said, this is sort of it is sort of light. But 101 00:07:17.889 --> 00:07:23.209 you know, what I love about it is that there is some constructive criticism 102 00:07:23.329 --> 00:07:30.000 happening here right, because what I've seen as an alternative is someone screenshots a 103 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.879 message like that with all the senders information in it, and like post it 104 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:40.240 on Linkedin and just totally rifts this person apart right right some some young str 105 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.360 that was just doing his or her job. And so the fact that we've 106 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.550 compiled these here not just to say hey, don't do this, for the 107 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:50.389 talk about why it's not effective, I think is really, really key. 108 00:07:50.990 --> 00:07:56.029 And so the the insidiousness of that one is it is it mostly based in 109 00:07:56.149 --> 00:08:00.500 just the fact that you don't know that person or that they're asking you something 110 00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:03.779 before offering you anything. You know, it's a little bit I think it's 111 00:08:03.779 --> 00:08:05.300 a little deeper than that. I think it to me it says, Hey, 112 00:08:05.420 --> 00:08:09.459 I found you and I found your contact information, maybe your email addresser 113 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:15.209 your phone number. So I did something to find you which tells you you 114 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.329 could do a little bit more to find the contact that you're looking for, 115 00:08:18.610 --> 00:08:20.810 by the way, and it would be better for you and for them, 116 00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:24.170 but you've elected to stop and not take that extra step. Instead, I'm 117 00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:28.160 going to put that homework on this one contact that I've found now try to 118 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.039 have them navigate me through their organization in the way that's, you know, 119 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.799 most effective for me. And so is that the technology is there, the 120 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.840 data is there, the information is there that you got to a certain point, 121 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.429 but you didn't take that extra step to get to the next point. 122 00:08:43.789 --> 00:08:48.389 And and if we can all relate to some of these prospecting techniques and say, 123 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:50.590 Yep, I've either seen that or I've done that a hundred times, 124 00:08:52.029 --> 00:08:56.620 then the receiving end of that has received that a hundred times and you've now 125 00:08:56.779 --> 00:09:00.740 just put yourself back in the noise rather than try to do something that would 126 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:05.620 help you stand out, differentiate and really be unique and interesting and worthy of 127 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:09.169 response. Yeah, you got to wonder at an organization where that's, you 128 00:09:09.250 --> 00:09:13.129 know, built. is probably built into some sequence that you've been infied into 129 00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:18.610 write some some automation. How long have they been using that automation with little 130 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:26.399 success and ignoring the data that it's not successful? Because a certain point that 131 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.679 you can internalize your failures and be like sad about them, or you can 132 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.399 hustle row or in them out and be like I've I just keep doing it, 133 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.269 though, or you can say, Yep, that didn't work. It's 134 00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:43.549 a data point. Let how do I use this to move forward? You 135 00:09:43.629 --> 00:09:46.590 know I mean right, I do. And you think about it and I 136 00:09:46.789 --> 00:09:50.950 tried to rationalize that. I understand the the you know, kind of ongoing 137 00:09:50.029 --> 00:09:52.899 use of some of these techniques. You say, Hey, it must work 138 00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:56.460 for some percentage of the time for people to keep doing this. The extreme 139 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.539 of that, right, would have to be rope, those Robo dialers. 140 00:10:00.539 --> 00:10:03.659 Right, there's robot calls, because you've got a wonder, you know, 141 00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:09.049 how how often can that possibly work? But it must be to some level 142 00:10:09.129 --> 00:10:13.809 that you know perpetuates that that technique, her habit. But then think, 143 00:10:13.809 --> 00:10:16.570 Nick, you think for a second about that old adage of you only get 144 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:20.529 one chance to make a first impression, and if your first impression trying to 145 00:10:20.929 --> 00:10:26.279 engage a company for future a future relationship and your first impression is one that's 146 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:30.600 this poor because you haven't done, you know, the basic leg work or 147 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:35.080 homework to know that company better that you want to engage with. Think about 148 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:39.029 the potential brand damage that does to you to say I'm engaging you and I'm 149 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:43.549 not. I don't care enough about the future relationship to actually do some real 150 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:46.710 work. So I'm going to see if I can't spray and pray and get 151 00:10:46.789 --> 00:10:50.860 something out of this, you know, broadcast email campaign. It's silly really. 152 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:54.259 Yeah, as we're still on the same page that, I was just 153 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:58.980 going to ask about that. As far as how long or what or at 154 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.779 what volume was some practice like this have to happen before you think it is 155 00:11:01.899 --> 00:11:05.970 going to start to affect the brand, because I'll tell you what, in 156 00:11:05.129 --> 00:11:09.210 my experience, not very long, because it depends on who the person is 157 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:15.610 that receives it. So I was I was an SDR at this organization and 158 00:11:15.730 --> 00:11:18.759 I was responsible for, you know, just sort of spanning big people. 159 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.120 We were doing that work and it was really important and I really in my 160 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.120 role as a se I really believed in what we were selling and trying to 161 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.240 accomplish, and so I had no problem reaching out to as many people as 162 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.710 possible to evangelize them behind this deal and and that will those are my very 163 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:39.590 real and innocent and genuine intentions behind the volume with which I was reaching out 164 00:11:39.590 --> 00:11:43.830 to these people. They didn't matter, because what happened was when my events 165 00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:48.019 team ended up being at this conference, their name had become our name had 166 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:52.419 become synonymous with all. Those are the people that call you a bunch of 167 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:54.259 times a day or those are the people where you can't even engage with their 168 00:11:54.340 --> 00:12:00.179 content without them, you know, trying to have a million email set to 169 00:12:00.220 --> 00:12:01.809 you as a follow up and show their message on your throat after that, 170 00:12:01.929 --> 00:12:05.370 and it was it hurt. It was so hurtful to because I was like 171 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:07.850 no, I was just trying to like make friends with many people as possible 172 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:11.850 and now I'm like ruined the reputation. And I mean if these saying things 173 00:12:11.889 --> 00:12:15.840 like that, and you raise a really good point, and he raised a 174 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.440 good point, to say, look, a lot of this is done with 175 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:20.759 with good interest in mind, or best interest in mind, or at least 176 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:26.679 with positive intent like nobody's waking up this morning saying, hmm, how many 177 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.669 people can I annoy? And aggravate with my emails today or with my outreach 178 00:12:30.789 --> 00:12:33.830 there, with my prospecting techniques today. So I totally get that and that's 179 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:37.190 why I always start off by saying it's with just, you know, a 180 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:43.190 mountain of respect and empathy, but it's set stepping back and saying, are 181 00:12:43.269 --> 00:12:46.820 you really putting yourself in the shoes of the recipient and thinking through what their 182 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:52.659 experience is? And to your point, but that long term brand or perception 183 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:58.419 or reputational damage could be and the one is another one that was on my 184 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.090 list, the one that you mentioned. I call it the Stalker, and 185 00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:05.450 that's the one where you do go and engage with somebody's content because you, 186 00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:11.330 you know, were moved by some of their whatever their messaging was, and 187 00:13:11.370 --> 00:13:15.960 there was enough awareness or intrigue created, and then, after you've engaged with 188 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.000 the content, you get that kind of creepy email afterwards saying, you know, 189 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.080 I noticed that you were lucky at my content. Good, you might 190 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.720 want to have a phone call and it'll like, oh, you know, 191 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.230 that's just you passed the creepy line. Fact there might come on. It's 192 00:13:31.269 --> 00:13:35.789 ridiculous, but again you're using the technology. It's available right we know that 193 00:13:35.830 --> 00:13:39.110 you can make those connections between content and email. Yeah, but man, 194 00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:41.620 be careful about how and when you do it. So not, you know, 195 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:46.379 crossing the line. That's a good time. You know what it reminds 196 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:48.500 me of. It's like if you so, if you're on so you get 197 00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:54.580 a friend request from someone right on facebook and it accepts them on facebook and 198 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:56.889 on Messenger. No, messenger. They can see your little green dot when 199 00:13:56.929 --> 00:14:01.570 you're online and all I don't want the extent of the relationship is that you've 200 00:14:01.610 --> 00:14:05.970 accepted their friends request and then the next time like hey, I saw you 201 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:09.929 agree dot on, I saw that you're online and it's like you see me 202 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.120 now, do you know? But you're like defriend, deep friend, deep 203 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:20.159 friend, stage five, stalk or what do I do? And maybe that 204 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.279 person had sweet things to say to me. I don't know. Will never 205 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:28.149 know because they cross the creep line exactly. This is so much fun and 206 00:14:28.470 --> 00:14:33.870 I'm I really do love the spirit with which you are for giving this information, 207 00:14:33.990 --> 00:14:37.509 Shan, and now it's time you to let us know. How. 208 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:43.940 How do we not? Why do we turn this around? Man, yeah, 209 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:46.899 look in the answers is easy as the problem. You think about it, 210 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:48.980 because there is so much noise and we can all relate to all of 211 00:14:50.059 --> 00:14:54.929 these prospecting techniques. It tells you, Hey, use the technology to your 212 00:14:54.970 --> 00:14:58.649 advantage and do something different than that crowd and you're going to s stand to 213 00:14:58.769 --> 00:15:03.730 stand out that much more than the crowd. So the information is available to 214 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.759 get better, you know, in terms of who are you trying to contact, 215 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.399 what's the segment that they're and how much can you know about them? 216 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.600 And I know the sounds like marketing speak, if you will, but if 217 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:20.759 you just spend a little bit of time trying to understand who your contact is 218 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.830 or who your target is, and spend a little bit of time personalizing your 219 00:15:24.870 --> 00:15:28.710 message or, frankly, just making sure that your goods and services even apply 220 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:33.269 to that potential target, personalize the note just a little bit, and man, 221 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:39.220 they can just stick out like nothing you've ever seen before. And you 222 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:41.820 in the same way that we can mock some of these techniques that start to 223 00:15:41.899 --> 00:15:46.779 get tired and old and what have you, we can all think also about 224 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:50.210 those emails that we get that are so refreshing, where it's somebody saying, 225 00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:54.490 Hey, understand that, this is what your company does, and I heard 226 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:56.450 from your last earnings call that this is one of the things you guys were 227 00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.970 working on. We happen to be in that space. Do you have a 228 00:16:00.009 --> 00:16:03.850 few minutes? We could chat about it. Suddenly. Now, from a 229 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:07.559 generic and and you know, kind of one size fits all approach, here's 230 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.720 somebody who's taken just a minute to learn about something that you really might be 231 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:17.080 genuinely interested in and they reached out in a very sincere way. There's so 232 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.909 much more likely to get a response than some of these generic messages. Now, 233 00:16:19.950 --> 00:16:22.950 I get that that's a little bit harder, but you know, I 234 00:16:23.149 --> 00:16:26.830 think that the ratio of effort to response is also going to be orders of 235 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:30.269 magnitude greater. Right, and it's like you said at the top, with 236 00:16:30.710 --> 00:16:36.100 with great data comes great responsibility. I want that on a tshirt first. 237 00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:40.299 We could pay credit for it. I think that is spider man. I'm 238 00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:42.179 not sure, but I'm going to go back to that. I don't know 239 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:45.419 he was. He was. His was a little bit different. He wasn't 240 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.250 quite talking about data, but I want specifically yours, the words there. 241 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:51.169 You go on as usert. So this is great. I love the way 242 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:53.250 you laid this out. I think it's just the sort of thing that you 243 00:16:53.330 --> 00:16:57.330 know, rather than putting people off and causing this knee jerk defensiveness about these 244 00:16:57.409 --> 00:17:00.370 techniques that we use, I think it does cost people to look a little 245 00:17:00.370 --> 00:17:06.680 bit more inward and and want to have an eye toward the data and the 246 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:11.759 ultimate goal. Think about that before we commit some of these as so called 247 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.069 offensive so thank you for laying that out for us. And now that I 248 00:17:15.190 --> 00:17:18.710 have a successfully picked your brain and seeing what I could get out of it, 249 00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:22.430 Steve, it is time for you to tell us about what you are 250 00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:26.910 putting in it. So tell us about a learning resource that you've engaged with 251 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.299 that is either informing your approach with this. Just a few excited the days? 252 00:17:32.019 --> 00:17:34.259 Sure. So mine it's a new one and it's probably a little bit 253 00:17:34.339 --> 00:17:38.980 nontraditional, but I recently joined the board of our local chapter of make a 254 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:44.890 wish, and so now I'm meeting other board members for make a wish and 255 00:17:45.049 --> 00:17:48.609 and the learning piece of it is twofold. So, for one, I 256 00:17:48.890 --> 00:17:53.650 tend to get fairly house they hyper focused to my opic workaholic, you know 257 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:59.799 the kind of type, type A personality, and I lose sight of some 258 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:03.000 of the the broader you know, universe around us sometimes make a wish. 259 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:08.000 Is such a phenomenal organization and learning from other board members there and learning about 260 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.990 their mission has done two things for me. One, it's really exposed me 261 00:18:12.150 --> 00:18:18.349 to an area of the world that I just was not as exposed to before 262 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:21.150 and it's one where I think I can, you know, do some good. 263 00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:25.910 But to it's really connected me with other people in the community who have 264 00:18:26.109 --> 00:18:30.059 different points of view and they all have different learning resources and this kind of, 265 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:33.059 you know, back and forth best practice sharing has been a nice, 266 00:18:33.259 --> 00:18:37.740 you know kind of unintended consequence of that as well. So my I guess 267 00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:41.609 my message is for others that haven't engaged or reached out into their communities to 268 00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:47.049 find ways to participate. If you're hyper focused on your work like I have 269 00:18:47.690 --> 00:18:51.890 been historically, you know it's been a great opportunity to expand my horizons. 270 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:56.759 I'd offer your listeners the same recommendation and love it so much. Yes, 271 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.799 yes, yes, people are a learning resource. Am I write? No 272 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:06.240 doubt, no doubt, absolutely. I love it, and so you've done 273 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:07.319 it. You've made me a fan and, just like me, I know 274 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.150 that you've made fast fans of everybody listening. So tell us, tell us 275 00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:15.869 how we can keep up with you and connect with you. So best ways 276 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:21.029 linkedin. That's my preferred outlets where I probably spend most of my time from 277 00:19:21.069 --> 00:19:23.109 a social perspective. So feel free to reach out to me on Linkedin. 278 00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:27.299 I did. I do have those other kind of petty annoyances that we talked 279 00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:30.220 about today. I've got a handful of others that I'm going to be, 280 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:34.019 you know, publishing as a sequel to the first one, and feel free 281 00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:37.259 to add your own on there as well, and maybe we can all learn 282 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:41.130 from it and pick a better path going forward. Perfect. Thank you so 283 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:44.049 much. Like you mentioned there, alluded to here, we did only get 284 00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:47.329 to actually discuss two or three of these and you've got more content around this 285 00:19:47.410 --> 00:19:48.769 coming out, so we got no choice. We got to have you on 286 00:19:48.849 --> 00:19:52.240 again. Get Way. This has been a blast, Nikki. Thank you 287 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.160 so much for having me. Thanks so much, Steve. You Bet we 288 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.440 totally get it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it 289 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:04.920 can be a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the BOB 290 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:10.910 growth big three, a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways 291 00:20:10.950 --> 00:20:15.549 from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big 292 00:20:15.670 --> 00:20:19.549 Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three