1108: Why Assembly Line Marketing Must Die w/ Daniel Incandela

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.519 Want to expand the reach of your content, start a podcast, feature industry 2 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:08.910 experts on your show and leverage the influence and reach of your guests to grow 3 00:00:08.990 --> 00:00:18.670 your brand. Learn more at sweetfish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 4 00:00:19.109 --> 00:00:23.500 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 5 00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:27.379 before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 6 00:00:27.460 --> 00:00:31.699 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 7 00:00:31.739 --> 00:00:36.289 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 8 00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:41.170 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 9 00:00:41.210 --> 00:00:45.729 building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 10 00:00:45.810 --> 00:00:49.329 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 11 00:00:49.490 --> 00:00:52.600 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 12 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:56.600 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 13 00:00:56.600 --> 00:01:00.560 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt 14 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.549 to take over the world. Just getting well, maybe let's get into the 15 00:01:04.629 --> 00:01:14.510 show. Welcome back to bedd growth, I am your host for today's episode, 16 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:17.790 Nikki Ivy, with sweet fish media. Guys, I've got with me 17 00:01:17.950 --> 00:01:23.500 today Daniel and Candela, who is chief marketing officer at Conga. Daniel, 18 00:01:23.540 --> 00:01:26.739 how you doing today? I'm glad excited to chat with you. Thanks for 19 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:29.500 having me. Yeah, we're going to get into it. This is gonna 20 00:01:29.500 --> 00:01:30.620 be fun, though. We so we talked on this show a lot about 21 00:01:30.620 --> 00:01:34.730 sales and marketing alignment, but you you had this experience where you had just 22 00:01:34.849 --> 00:01:40.569 identified this this situation, this crunch, that marketers were in right that you 23 00:01:40.810 --> 00:01:44.290 turned assembly line marketing. So, guys, we're going to talk about why 24 00:01:44.370 --> 00:01:49.319 a simbly line marketing needs to die. But before we get to all of 25 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.120 that, Daniel, I would love it if you would just give us a 26 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:55.640 little bit of background on yourself and when you and the folks at Cong to 27 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:59.719 have been up to these days. Sure. So, I am eleven months 28 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:06.030 in as Chief Marketing Officer at a company called Conga, and we simplify the 29 00:02:06.109 --> 00:02:12.310 act of creating documents, managing contracts and capturing e signatures. So if you 30 00:02:12.389 --> 00:02:15.219 think about how companies are going through their own digital transformations at the moment. 31 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:20.740 It's a really hot topic. Congo works hand in hand with our customers to 32 00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:23.379 guide them through the digital document transformation and, if you think about it, 33 00:02:24.139 --> 00:02:29.219 business is run on documents. It's a critical piece of that. So I'm 34 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:32.650 really excited almost a year into a into a company that is as high growth, 35 00:02:32.810 --> 00:02:38.210 has customers that love them and is developing truly innovative products. So that's 36 00:02:38.250 --> 00:02:42.729 where I am now. I have a pretty interesting background. I have an 37 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:47.639 Undergrad degree in anthropology. I spent nine years in the museum field, I 38 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.680 worked in auto racing and I've been in the ass space for the last seven 39 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.719 years. So I'm kind of new to marketing and this whole Sass stuff, 40 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:00.189 but I love it. It moves so quickly. If to be the top 41 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:05.669 of your game, and each quarter changes from the next, so you have 42 00:03:05.830 --> 00:03:08.949 to really think on your feet. So you're like, if Indiana Jones were 43 00:03:08.949 --> 00:03:15.780 a marketer, I'm into it. If I was cool and, you know, 44 00:03:15.139 --> 00:03:19.259 brave and all that stuff. Yeah, that would your plenty of those 45 00:03:19.300 --> 00:03:21.539 things. Look, it's a great thing to do to take a stance like 46 00:03:21.659 --> 00:03:23.580 this. We talk people a lot of the time, who I have on 47 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:28.169 this show and who we partner with in and producing several other podcasts, and 48 00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:30.610 one of the themes that comes up a lot is this idea of taking a 49 00:03:30.729 --> 00:03:35.090 stance on something right, like not being at all ambiguous on how you feel. 50 00:03:35.409 --> 00:03:38.490 And this article that you wrote about it's a manifesto. First of all. 51 00:03:38.490 --> 00:03:40.330 If you call it a Menifesto, that's when you know you bet to 52 00:03:40.370 --> 00:03:44.879 be hate with some heat. But it's a so it gives us Tomi Line 53 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:47.280 Marketing. I need to know paid the picture for is, Daniel, where 54 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:52.039 you were in your heart and mind and environment when you came up with that 55 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.199 idea, and we're just so moved so to write about this topic. WHO 56 00:03:54.400 --> 00:04:00.349 IT comes from? I think for many years of experience of being a companies 57 00:04:00.430 --> 00:04:02.909 where operating as a service center, which is what marketing does, and in 58 00:04:02.949 --> 00:04:08.750 the marketing space, and I'll put it this way, one of my last 59 00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:12.300 boss, a gentleman named that Blueberg, said this to me. He said 60 00:04:12.340 --> 00:04:15.900 marketing is like this. He's like, you always have room for one more 61 00:04:15.019 --> 00:04:17.819 French fry. As like what are you talking about? He's like, well, 62 00:04:17.980 --> 00:04:20.660 you always have room for another French fry, right, and like of 63 00:04:20.779 --> 00:04:26.250 course, he's like that's marketing. Everyone is always going to have a request 64 00:04:26.370 --> 00:04:30.810 for marketing. Everyone is always going to have an idea and that is important. 65 00:04:30.850 --> 00:04:32.730 So everything I'm about to say does not take away from the fact that 66 00:04:32.930 --> 00:04:38.250 marketing is there to serve the company, I'm really proud of that, and 67 00:04:38.410 --> 00:04:42.759 taking care of our stakeholders. We are also on the hook to drive meaningful 68 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:47.519 pipeline, drive incredible brand awareness and contribute to the culture that those are my 69 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.800 three main pillars of marketing and that is really hard to do. And so 70 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:57.750 when I think about the scrutiny the marketings under it is often misunderstood. People 71 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.870 assume that we design stuff and spend a lot of money and have a ton 72 00:05:00.949 --> 00:05:08.579 of tshirts, but the fact is we can now fully report on how we're 73 00:05:09.339 --> 00:05:14.139 contributing to pipeline, new business, the Roy on every dollar spent. It 74 00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:17.180 is now a data world, so marketings in a whole new space where they 75 00:05:17.259 --> 00:05:20.529 can drive strategy based on data, and you know, we have a ton 76 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:26.529 of data now. And so the fact is everyone wants marketing to drive strategy 77 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:30.730 or at least contribute to it, but we're getting hamstrung because of all these 78 00:05:30.889 --> 00:05:35.120 requests and it's always a priority. It's always the latest fire. It's always 79 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.639 the thing that has to be done by the end of the day and for 80 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.839 me it's it's impossibly successful. I'm still fairly new in the this role. 81 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:46.439 I want to make sure that the board and my boss loves what marketing is 82 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.589 doing and in order for us have the biggest impact, we have to be 83 00:05:49.750 --> 00:05:55.230 strategic. We can't do that if we're just running around taking orders. So 84 00:05:55.350 --> 00:06:00.110 it wasn't a it wasn't written as a disk to anyone else across companies or 85 00:06:00.149 --> 00:06:03.110 stakeholders. It's a call to arms and a call for help, to saying 86 00:06:03.230 --> 00:06:09.899 hey, marketing should be part of the team driving strategy. We can't do 87 00:06:10.220 --> 00:06:13.459 it if we don't have the time to breathe. That's right. I think 88 00:06:13.459 --> 00:06:16.779 that's right and I think that the more folks take this collaborative approach between will 89 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:21.930 stakeholders in the overall revenue growth team, your sales and marketing teams, I 90 00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:26.290 think that that starts to make more sense. And sometimes it's just as simple, 91 00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:30.569 as you know, having meetings together instead of having several meetings where the 92 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:34.720 information is been downloading. Things are lost in translation because what you just talked 93 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:39.639 about. So let's say, as I'm sure it happens in most organizations. 94 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:43.360 Right, marketing got together, they've got their ducks in a row in terms 95 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.800 of, you know, how to prove Roi Dollar dollar for what they spend. 96 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.509 I've got their strategy, and then some sales person walks out to them 97 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:54.269 is like hey, at this conference we went to, our competitors have fidget 98 00:06:54.269 --> 00:06:57.910 spinners. We get fidget spinners like this is like, come on dog, 99 00:06:58.269 --> 00:07:00.779 like it's in. Sometimes it's that. It's that little, but other times 100 00:07:00.819 --> 00:07:04.579 it's much bigger things. Like you said, there's this urgency behind everyone else's 101 00:07:04.819 --> 00:07:10.459 goals, as if to say that marketings go or somehow less of a priority 102 00:07:10.579 --> 00:07:15.139 one. In fact, marketings goals are the goals of the rest of the 103 00:07:15.170 --> 00:07:19.050 revenue growth teams. Yeah, so, so give us some what I was 104 00:07:19.089 --> 00:07:21.769 my example because I said I've been that. got been the girl asking for 105 00:07:21.810 --> 00:07:27.810 figet spinners. Give us some more examples of what types of things contribute to 106 00:07:27.850 --> 00:07:30.240 that assembly line marketing where you guys are just taking orders. Yeah, I 107 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:34.199 mean, let's let's keep going with fidget spinners. Right, for every fidget 108 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:41.360 spinner request there's another and another another. So one strategy I have taken as 109 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.240 I realize very quickly. Look, if you're going to be a marketing you're 110 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.509 going to have plenty of ideas and plenty of other people that think they can 111 00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:51.069 market, which is absolutely fine. We want ideas. So one is should 112 00:07:51.110 --> 00:07:57.470 lead to really transparent organization. At this stage in our careers and with companies, 113 00:07:57.910 --> 00:08:01.420 we've never had so much data out a fingertips. So be transparent with 114 00:08:01.540 --> 00:08:07.939 that, so anyone in at Conga can concee into marketings dashboards how much pipeline 115 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:13.769 we're creating, how much new business were contributing to? What is the Roy 116 00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:16.810 on certain channel spends? What is it producing? So one thought is, 117 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:22.009 look, we will make that transparent. If we're doing well, then great, 118 00:08:22.209 --> 00:08:24.410 you can tell us that, but if we are lacking in any area, 119 00:08:26.009 --> 00:08:28.600 I am open to someone coming be and saying hey, have you thought 120 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.519 about this? Have you thought about that, because it is our role as 121 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:35.679 one of the strategy JIC centers of the company to deliver for the company. 122 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.960 We have to take that seriously and so I think if you lead with more 123 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:45.509 of an Roy and data approach, it does establish some craft ability so that 124 00:08:45.629 --> 00:08:48.389 if someone does come ask for fidget spinner, it's an easy decision. It 125 00:08:48.509 --> 00:08:52.190 can be either hey, we've already ordered those, don't worry about it, 126 00:08:52.309 --> 00:08:56.259 or looked, we've decided against doing that because our research shows that we should 127 00:08:56.259 --> 00:09:01.379 do this instead. And so at no point do I ever want it to 128 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:05.139 be that marketing should not get feedback. We need it. But what I 129 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:07.620 want to do is direct the conversation towards a wedding strategy. And the same 130 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:11.929 way I don't want anybody suggesting things to me and then me not understanding where 131 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:18.929 that suggestion is coming from. Yea Most effective if that suggestion is driven by 132 00:09:18.129 --> 00:09:24.919 some common results goal. So if you know my neighbor sitting next to me, 133 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.440 I made a lot of cold calls in my day. So you are 134 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.720 my neighbor sitting next to me. Hears me on a call and said, 135 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:33.679 hey, you should say this way. I sat it that way. That 136 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.080 was a lot more weight. If you're telling me x amount of people have 137 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.190 said it this way and that's been successful in the FY you should say it 138 00:09:41.230 --> 00:09:43.429 that way, not just a person. You know, subjective opinion as what 139 00:09:43.789 --> 00:09:48.029 happened, because this would be fun and a lot of time the suggestions that 140 00:09:48.830 --> 00:09:52.350 from, depending on who's what the role is. That the person's coming to 141 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:54.659 marketing with the suggestion well, I something. It's just they saw something that 142 00:09:54.740 --> 00:10:00.500 looks cool and thought it would work, or that a you know, that 143 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:05.860 discipline is in trouble and not having their number and it's starting to roll down 144 00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.529 the other looking for some sort of way to justify what's going on versus just 145 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:13.009 having a more collaborative conversation. And again, like, I get where you're 146 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:15.370 coming from. I know that the spirit of that, anyone who's read this 147 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:20.129 article that you wrote, there is no spirit of opposition in this. It 148 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.279 is all love, like it is all let's figure this thing out, we 149 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:26.480 all get to the place that we all want to get to together. So 150 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.039 if I say if I sound like I'm speaking a little harshly, know that 151 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:31.919 I'm being hard on myself because, as I said, I was one of 152 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:37.710 the people making me some solicitous suggestions. I mean, I remember this, 153 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:41.789 Oh my goodness, the settleman company I worked at called qualitia. I was 154 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:48.789 just so excited about what I had seen the marketing team do with the company 155 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:52.820 that I was ask before that the first day I met this guy's so embarrassing. 156 00:10:52.259 --> 00:10:56.620 The first time I met this guy, the Amo I I sit him 157 00:10:56.700 --> 00:11:01.580 down and show him this other completely unrelated industry Tou with the unrelated product. 158 00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:05.289 I didn't know what I was talking about, but I was just like look, 159 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:07.490 so this is what their landing page looks like and I think our should 160 00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:09.409 maybe look like that. I mean, it was so out of line, 161 00:11:09.529 --> 00:11:13.289 but I can't only I know that even then, even when I was coming 162 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:16.289 from just this place of being excited and saying, Hey, you know, 163 00:11:16.570 --> 00:11:18.919 if, if, what we're look trying to get to is this kind of 164 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.879 machine like they had. You know, I've seen that work and this is 165 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:26.039 what it looks like. But yeah, it wasn't coming from any data room 166 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.120 place, which is why I should have known to just say nothing. But 167 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:33.710 but give us other than coming from a dad room place. I want, 168 00:11:33.789 --> 00:11:39.509 I want more. What else can see Mo than marketing team to do to 169 00:11:39.110 --> 00:11:43.750 to avoid becoming assembly line markets, because no one, I know, no 170 00:11:43.870 --> 00:11:48.899 one, wants to feel like they're constantly you know that that's their purpose to 171 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:50.860 take a quest yeah, we do. Well, I think back to your 172 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:56.700 landing page, example with the CMO. It's you know, my experience with 173 00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:00.419 that is that ninety nine percent of the time it's not coming from a malicious 174 00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:03.250 place. It's just someone that is excited about their job that thinks it might 175 00:12:03.409 --> 00:12:09.690 help right and so I never wanted to discourage passion from anyone like that. 176 00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:13.730 We are here to listen and make that come true. I do think that 177 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:20.759 in some ways, no, for sure, the modern CMO needs to rebrand 178 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:26.120 marketing with them companies, and I think marketing is often misunderstood and I think 179 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.789 historically we've done a poor job of really reporting out on the impact that we 180 00:12:30.909 --> 00:12:33.669 can have, and this is a totally different age. Those days are over. 181 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:39.990 So a lot of it for me comes back to how do you establish 182 00:12:39.070 --> 00:12:43.500 transparency to the rest of the company so that anyone can know what's happening? 183 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:48.980 You lead with data, so that the data reveals the story for you. 184 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.940 The data doesn't lie. The data also informs the strategy, and then a 185 00:12:56.100 --> 00:13:01.090 CMO needs to articulate a vision and a strategy for the Marketing Organization and the 186 00:13:01.169 --> 00:13:05.250 company that is going to drive success. And for me that is meaningful pipeline, 187 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.409 brand awareness and contributing to a culture. And so if you're doing those 188 00:13:09.450 --> 00:13:16.240 things, you know Cemo is also a storyteller. You are inspiring the rest 189 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.240 of company you're getting buying, you're getting stakeholders to provide input to help shape 190 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:26.519 that. When you're doing that, then it allows you to direct the marketing 191 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:31.590 resources to something that people believe in for the company and it that one is 192 00:13:31.669 --> 00:13:37.870 not only inspiring but it's motivating. It creates a really energetic environment. But 193 00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:43.539 back to the there's always room for one more fry when someone comes in with 194 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:46.860 a new request that differs from that strategy. It makes it a much easier 195 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.580 conversation, for sure. No, I don't want people to come into melely. 196 00:13:50.659 --> 00:13:54.460 It's a no or like. We would never do that, so please 197 00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:58.009 go away. It's right. It should be a conversation and a collaboration, 198 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:03.889 but if it does divert from a vision that the company's bought into, it 199 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:07.129 absolutely should be not. Yeah, and if if you look at the research, 200 00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:15.000 of all the sea level executives, SMOS have the shortest tenure. Often 201 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.960 they are under some of the most pressure because because they have to change an 202 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.720 organization. And so if you're not doing that, you're not helping yourself. 203 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.070 And I love my job, I love being a combat I plan on being 204 00:14:26.149 --> 00:14:31.149 here for a while and so for me it's that's why I wrote that. 205 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:35.110 It's it's kind of a rebrand of marketing and I want to drive strategy. 206 00:14:35.149 --> 00:14:39.700 I don't want to take orders. I love it so much. What a 207 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:41.899 strong stance to take on this and what a necessary one. And here's the 208 00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:48.139 thing, like be to be marketing and sales is going through. I talked 209 00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:50.220 about the thought on this show, sort of this identity shift. Everybody is 210 00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:54.929 redefining who we are. We as sales people, are are, thank God, 211 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.409 you know, in recovery, some of us in hangover from Hustle, 212 00:14:58.409 --> 00:15:03.529 foreign culture, and so for marketing to have its own iteration or version of 213 00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:09.440 what that identity shift looks like, I think it's really important and empowering and 214 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.159 I'm glad that you, you know, came to talk to us about it, 215 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.080 because what happens is those teams, right, sales teams, are on 216 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:22.389 up, on up through, you know, even the the VP level, 217 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:26.149 director level sales people. When it comes to vision, like you just mentioned, 218 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:31.110 we're most familiar with the CEO's version of the vision or the founder, 219 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.740 but we are very rarely put in front of or given access to, the 220 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:43.139 CMO's vision, and I think the more that that is made visible to sales 221 00:15:43.220 --> 00:15:48.299 teams and across the organization, then the more trust there's going to be. 222 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:54.210 If I if I've been invited into your vision as the CMO and, you 223 00:15:54.289 --> 00:15:58.250 know, given access to this same dreaming goal and help to understand how it 224 00:15:58.490 --> 00:16:00.929 is essentially the same, you know, goal as what I'm going for. 225 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:07.080 Them far less likely, far less likely to, you know, make these 226 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:10.279 little suggestions that I feel like you need my little suggestions. The trust has 227 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.080 been built. You know, the next you, once I get that, 228 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.679 you guys, get that buy in, then you know that I don't have 229 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.070 any reason to say anything deep to you know, marketers about the just bitters, 230 00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:22.470 because I know, I've trust that they've already looked into it and I 231 00:16:22.509 --> 00:16:25.830 don't have better ideas than them about this. Now again, there's room within 232 00:16:25.909 --> 00:16:29.909 that for this fun, excited passion, you know, to come and share 233 00:16:29.990 --> 00:16:33.500 ideas. But the trust and the collaboration has got to be stepped up and 234 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:38.259 I think it starts just like what you talked about, where CMOS take a 235 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:42.220 stand, take initiative and say, Hey, we're going to redefine what modern 236 00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:45.659 marketing is. Thank you so much for laying that out the way that you 237 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:48.129 did before. I move on to the next segment. I would just like 238 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:52.690 to hear, first of all, congrats on your year. One year adversary 239 00:16:52.730 --> 00:16:56.450 there in your role. But any parting with them on this idea for for 240 00:16:56.769 --> 00:17:02.120 maybe someone else who's starting their first quarter as a CMO or WHO's starting on 241 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.400 a team as a you know, on a larger marketing team, as a 242 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.920 generalist, as far as how they can contribue you to redefining the vision of 243 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.559 what a mardern market is. Yeah, I think you actually just said a 244 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.869 what a lot of what we've been talking about so far comes down to trust, 245 00:17:18.430 --> 00:17:22.029 and I think when I was talking about how the modern CMO could they 246 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:29.589 need to rebrand marketing. It's because a lot of organizations mistrust marketing, whether 247 00:17:29.670 --> 00:17:33.059 that's right or wrong. But if you're a marketer joining an organization or semi 248 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:37.420 coming in and to lead it, the most important thing you need to do 249 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:41.380 is established trust to a cross organization, because without that you don't stand a 250 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:48.049 chance. And that's why I've really stressed transparency and use of data and defining 251 00:17:48.089 --> 00:17:52.289 a vision, because if you're adhering to that and meeting those goals and and 252 00:17:52.569 --> 00:17:57.880 the processes and everything in between, then you're slowly building trust. Doesn't mean 253 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:03.440 everyone's going to like you or believe in what you're doing, but you're least 254 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.680 establishing trust and that leads to the ability of collaboration and direct conversations, and 255 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:12.430 that is really hard to do in businesses at time. So my insight is 256 00:18:14.309 --> 00:18:17.589 what I just stole from you is so thank you. I love it. 257 00:18:17.710 --> 00:18:18.950 I love it to death. I think we're on our way to something. 258 00:18:18.990 --> 00:18:23.029 Sales and marketing. Let's do it and everybody get it what they need. 259 00:18:23.109 --> 00:18:26.869 I Love I love it, but now that I have Daniel, but that's 260 00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:27.980 a definitely picked your brain and seeing what I could get out of it, 261 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:32.099 it is time for you to tell us about what you are putting in it. 262 00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:34.779 So talk to what about a resource that you've engave with it? Just 263 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:38.940 something that's happening in your life that, as you know, informed your approach 264 00:18:40.059 --> 00:18:45.210 of the Shit that you excited these days. Yeah, so I I travel 265 00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:49.970 a fair amount, so I rely on audio things. So a lot of 266 00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:55.759 podcasts that I listened to. They my favors. Probably how I built this 267 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.279 just understanding what entrepreneurs have to go through to get to the finish line. 268 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:06.039 It's very similar to what we have to go through within software. So that's 269 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:08.839 a regular thing that for me. Listen to a lot of audiobooks. So 270 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.069 speed of trust is one that I just finished, which is a lot of 271 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:18.990 what we've been talking about so far already. And then I think the one 272 00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:23.740 that's had the biggest impact on me and when I talked about frequently, is 273 00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:30.740 creativity, INC which is the leadership and creative style of what happens inside picks 274 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:37.579 are and and that really taught me how to be a leader. That is 275 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:42.130 is open to feedback from from everyone, where ideas can come from anywhere. 276 00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:48.329 And, more importantly, is is focus on suspending the ego from decisionmaking, 277 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:52.319 to just focus on what's best, and that is something I'm really passionate about. 278 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.480 I had here to serve and leadership mentorship is really important to me. 279 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.880 So another reason I like to be transparent because I want feedback, I want 280 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.839 criticism, I want to be the best and I can't do that if people 281 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.349 want to direct me. I love it. Then you got a lot in 282 00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:11.349 common with me and a lot of the values as we fish media. I'm 283 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:14.990 so glad that you came on to talk about this. That's really, really 284 00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:18.589 important topic with us. Yeah, I know that, just like me, 285 00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:22.220 Bolk listening are becoming fast fans of yours are going to want to know how 286 00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:23.700 to keep in touch with you. Let us know how both can connect with 287 00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:29.339 you. Daniel. Yeah, so I think I'm the only Daniel and Condalla 288 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.339 so that if you searched that, you're going to get pointed in the right 289 00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:37.210 place. I'm pretty active on twitter, which is at Daniel and condella perfect. 290 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:38.849 All right, good stuff. Will have to have you on to gain 291 00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:44.849 when you write your neck metifesto or once we've successfully navigated that markers and stale 292 00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:47.609 people that's been fleshing port that we're at, we'll all look back and have 293 00:20:47.730 --> 00:20:51.039 a laugh. Thank you so much for being on. The show man, 294 00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:56.400 how a good one. Thanks so much for having me. We totally get 295 00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.079 it. We publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be 296 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.069 a lot to keep up with. That's why we've started the Beeb growth big 297 00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:08.470 three. I know, fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from 298 00:21:08.470 --> 00:21:15.190 an entire week of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. 299 00:21:15.549 --> 00:21:18.900 That sweet fish Mediacom Big Three